Archive for the ‘moral’ Category

The Moral Facts

May 30, 2013

Paarsurrey says:

I agree with you that there is physical truth and there is moral truth and the next is the spiritual truth.

Thanks and regards

Fide Dubitandum

KevinCarterchildA lot has been said to demonstrate the reasonableness of belief in the non-physical. But, if we know of things (such as the mind) which are not physical, we have very good reason to think that the physical senses don’t exhaust all ways of knowing.

In fact, real-world personal experience is our most fundamental way of knowing about reality. It isn’t perfect, of course, but gives us a basic sense of what exists.

That being the case, there is no good reason to throw out the idea of moral truth.

For every argument that there is no such thing as objective moral truth, a parallel argument could be made that there is no such thing as physical reality. It really makes no sense, then, to insist that we trust our physical senses, but not our moral sense.

One might say, for instance, that not everyone has the same moral senses–or…

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Beyond Materialism

May 30, 2013

Paarsurrey says: Referring to your last line “As such, I’ll be visiting the New Testament in the near future.”

Your argument is good if we adhere to what Jesus believed in; but NT does not present Jesus’ teachings and what he believed in; it presents Trinity of Paul and the Church that Jesus never believed in.

Fide Dubitandum

thThus far, we’ve seen several things that either cannot be explained by materialism or positively contradict it. Contingent objects, the beginning of the universe, moral truth, the foundations of science, and conscious thought are among them.

Assuming one has followed the argument this far, we’re left with a timeless, immaterial, immensely powerful, moral, and personal being. At least, this concept explains those things on the table which need explanation. This, I would argue, simply follows from the facts of reality as we experience it.

This much has been said, meaning that we have reached a being which, most would agree, could reasonably be called God. Setting aside the objections that might be made up until this point, we have yet to address an oft-heard objection:

But which God is it?

Many have pointed out, rightly, that simply stopping with the conclusion of “God” isn’t enough. We need a more specific…

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Loving real Jesus and Mary of Quran; instead of mythical ones of Bible

November 7, 2009

A question for paarsurrey

sum wrote:

Hello paarsurrey

Do you love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Bible?

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend Sum

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran. The Bible, I mean the OTBible does not mention accounts of Jesus and Mary. The NTBible only gives the mythical account of Jesus, and does not present the real life account of Jesus. The NTBible, as I understand, is neither Word from the mouth of Creator- God Allah YHWH, nor even the mouth of Jesus himself. It is not even written by the faithful disciples of Jesus, but by the deserting persons who posed to be the disciples of Jesus; and who never were even the witness of the event of crucifixion, in which Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross.

There is no point in loving myths. The account of Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran is witnessed by the Creator- God Allah YHWH; who is the best witness of events of past, present and the future.

A real Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran could solve the ethical, moral and spiritual needs of the West; in which the Bible is so lacking being only mythical. Jesus and Mary could introduce the West with Muhammad, the Seal of Messengers and Prophets.

I think it is easy to understand; and you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“The Bible cannot be taken literally”

October 29, 2009

Hi friends

“The Bible cannot be taken literally”

We know that the Messengers Prophets of the Creator – God Allah YHWH, like Moses, Noah, Abraham and Jesus did receive Word of Revelation from Him. But unfortunately the Original Revelation has not been preserved literally and has been lost in the debris of time. We only get the glimpses of the Creator- God Allah YHWH’s Word. So definitely one does not get the true meaning and hence the true sense of it. I therefore agree that the Bible cannot be taken literally sometimes.

But at least we can understand academically that the Revelation had been received from God Allah YHWH. The lost part of the Bible or its ethical, moral and spiritual teachings can however be recovered/ modified or understood.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

No “Good without God?”: Jesus neither god nor Son of god

October 29, 2009

Hi friends

It is no good without the Creator-God Allah YHWH. It is very unnatural not to believe in the Creator- God Allah YHWH. It is just like believing that one was born without one’s parents. One has not seen one’s father mating with one’s mother even then one believes that one has a father. One has not seen one’s mother giving one birth yet one is not in doubt of one’ mother; so one very naturally believes in one’s mother and father and is never in doubt.

One knows that one’s mother and father had taken pains in upbringing one; they did it with love in a very natural way. It is no good without the father and mother; and in the same way it is no good without the Creator-God Allah YHWH.

Through the parents the Creator-God Allah YHWH gives us a taste of His Grace, Mercy.

We got born of our parents; when we were nothing; if left unattended, unfed we would have not survived and died in our infancy, not even knowing that we were ever born. From infancy, we reached childhood, adulthood, old age; so it all evolved very naturally. It is against evolution and progression not believing in the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

All we see in the Universe is the Work of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. All our knowledge and sciences are based on knowing the laws of nature that the Creator has set in motion; without His Work, there would be no knowledge and no sciences.

It is his benevolence that He did not leave us alone and through the perfect men called Messengers Prophets he sent his Revelations so that we may know about his attributes and other things most essential for our ethical, moral and spiritual advancement; from the unseen realm. This is called the Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I think without the Work of God or without the Word of god; we will be worse off in our lives.

Is there a doubt in Allah the Creator of the heavens and earth? (Quran)
Jesus was however not a god or a Son of god.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Musli

Jesus – the Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely

March 14, 2009;article=225172;show_parent=1;article=225191


Rome or India…he (Jesus) was just a man! (nm)
Fri Mar 13, 2009 06:33

paarsurrey whitemunara says:

Hi friend kasey!

I agree with you that Jesus was a human being and not a god whether he lived in Judea or he later, after the incident of crucifixion in which he survived a cursed death, he went to self-exile to live in India.

Quran mentions this much clarity. I give some verses of Quran about him for my friends here:

[5:70] اِنَّ الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا وَالَّذِيْنَ هَادُوْا وَالصّٰبِـُٔوْنَ وَالنَّصٰرٰى مَنْ اٰمَنَ بِاللّٰهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْاٰخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًـا فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُوْنَ
[5:70] Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[5:71] لَقَدْ اَخَذْنَا مِيْثَاقَ بَنِىْۤ اِسْرَآءِيْلَ وَاَرْسَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْهِمْ رُسُلاً‌ؕ كُلَّمَا جَآءَهُمْ رَسُوْلٌۢ بِمَا لَا تَهْوٰٓى اَنْفُسُهُمْۙ فَرِيْقًا كَذَّبُوْا وَفَرِيْقًا يَّقْتُلُوْنَ‏
[5:71] Surely, We took a covenant from the children of Israel, and We sent Messengers to them. But every time there came to them a Messenger with what their hearts desired not, they treated some as liars, and some they sought to kill.

[5:72] وَحَسِبُوْۤا اَلَّا تَكُوْنَ فِتْنَةٌ فَعَمُوْا وَصَمُّوْا ثُمَّ تَابَ اللّٰهُ عَلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ عَمُوْا وَصَمُّوْا كَثِيْرٌ مِّنْهُمْ‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ بَصِيْرٌۢ بِمَا يَعْمَلُوْنَ‏
[5:72] And they thought there would be no punishment, so they became blind and deaf. But Allah turned to them in mercy; yet again many of them became blind and deaf; and Allah is Watchful of what they do.

[5:73] لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِيْنَ قَالُوْۤا اِنَّ اللّٰهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيْحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ‌ؕ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيْحُ يٰبَنِىْۤ اِسْرآءِيْلَ اعْبُدُوْا اللّٰهَ رَبِّىْ وَرَبَّكُمْ‌ؕ اِنَّهٗ مَنْ يُّشْرِكْ بِاللّٰهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللّٰهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَـنَّةَ وَمَاْوٰٮهُ النَّارُ‌ؕ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِيْنَ مِنْ اَنْصَارٍ‏
[5:73] Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah himself said, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.

[5:74] لَـقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِيْنَ قَالُوْۤا اِنَّ اللّٰهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلٰثَةٍ‌ۘ وَمَا مِنْ اِلٰهٍ اِلَّاۤ اِلٰـهٌ وَّاحِدٌ‌ ؕ وَاِنْ لَّمْ يَنْتَهُوْا عَمَّا يَقُوْلُوْنَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ اَلِيْمٌ‏
[5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

[5:75] اَفَلَا يَتُوْبُوْنَ اِلَى اللّٰهِ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُوْنَهٗ‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ غَفُوْرٌ رَّحِيْمٌ‏
[5:75] Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?

[5:76] مَا الْمَسِيْحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ اِلَّا رَسُوْلٌ‌ۚ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُؕ وَاُمُّهٗ صِدِّيْقَةٌ‌ ؕ كَانَا يَاْكُلٰنِ الطَّعَامَ‌ؕ اُنْظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْاٰيٰتِ ثُمَّ انْظُرْ اَنّٰى يُؤْفَكُوْنَ‏
[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

[5:77] قُلْ اَتَعْبُدُوْنَ مِنْ دُوْنِ اللّٰهِ مَا لَا يَمْلِكُ لَـكُمْ ضَرًّا وَّلَا نَفْعًا‌ؕ وَاللّٰهُ هُوَ السَّمِيْعُ الْعَلِيْمُ‏
[5:77] Say, ‘Will you worship beside Allah that which has no power to do you harm or good?’ And it is Allah Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

[5:78] قُلْ يٰۤاَهْلَ الْـكِتٰبِ لَا تَغْلُوْا فِىْ دِيْنِكُمْ غَيْرَ الْحَـقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوْۤا اَهْوَآءَ قَوْمٍ قَدْ ضَلُّوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَاَضَلُّوْا كَثِيْرًا وَّضَلُّوْا عَنْ سَوَآءِ السَّبِيْلِ‏
[5:78] Say, ‘O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in the matter of your religion unjustly, nor follow the evil inclinations of a people who went astray before and caused many to go astray, and who have strayed away from the right path.’

[5:79] لُعِنَ الَّذِيْنَ كَفَرُوْا مِنْۢ بَنِىْۤ اِسْرَآءِيْلَ عَلٰى لِسَانِ دَاوٗدَ وَعِيْسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ‌ؕ ذٰلِكَ بِمَا عَصَوا وَّكَانُوْا يَعْتَدُوْنَ‏
[5:79] Those amongst the children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress.
So Quran does not eulogize Jesus. It is Paul who carved a mythical god from an imaginative Jesus, not the real and historic Jesus. Jesus carved by Paul from myths is not acceptable to the intelligent and rational America and Americans and the people in the West. Let America know the real and rational Jesus of Quran. What the American ladies n gents have to do with the ascetic Jesus who can’t solve their moral and spiritual problems?

I love Jesus so I would defend him against weird concepts of Paul.


paarsurrey – an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Who are the ‘skinheads’?

December 30, 2008






Peaceful spread of Islam in France

Originally Posted by Kaninchen:
Football hooliganism (rioting, street fighting) became a target of the neo-Nazis in England in the 1960’s and 70’s as a source of members – predominantly ‘skinheads’. Since then the violent youth of many countries, many of whom gather together in football crowds, have been targeted in the same way.

Paarsurrey says:


Are the ‘skinheads’ Muslims or Christians Catholics Protestants JWs? Please

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna



Originally Posted by bpcatholic:
You say you are peaceful and love Jesus Mary et cetera…why do you try to make Christianity look bad?

Paarsurrey says:


I think you are wrong here. I don’t make Christianity look bad.

How could I make them look bad when I love Jesus and Mary? It is true though that the present Christendom is very much mythical in my opinion; and has little (only in name sometimes) image of Jesus and Maryin them.

Nevertheless, I like the Christians rather love them, be they Catholics Protestants JWs etc, as I do love Buddhists and Hindus and Zoroastrians and Jews.

I think there is a lot of real human uplift work to be done in the world with joint and combined efforts of Catholics and peaceful Ahmadi Muslims.

What we can expect from the Atheists and Agnostics? At the most they, the Atheists Agnostics can only play a little part in Scientific and Physical realms of the humans. They don’t claim to believe in Moral and Spiritual realms/faculties of the human beings; that is why their contribution cannot be more than they claim.

Atheism and Agnosticism is the number one problem being faced by Catholics Protestants JWs + 32000 denominations and Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc- all Revealed Religions, in Europe, America, and Asia and elsewhere in the world.

It is the combined duty of all the Revealed Religions of the world to work for Physical, Moral and Spiritual uplift of the human beings.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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There is no moral case of the Christians for preferring Jesus over Buddha

June 8, 2008

johnshoreland says (short excerpts from his writeup “mr wasnot having any responds to Christians”):


1.No one comes to the Father except through me contention that Christians need to stop relying on John 14:6 as proof that heaven (assuming there is such a place) is the exclusive domain of Christians.

3.To insist that your religion is the only true religion is so profoundly disrespectful that it can’t smack of anything but an almost absurd immaturity.

4.You can’t say all concepts of God, and all systems of faith, and all personal encounters with the universal divine that aren’t grounded in the truth of Christianity are invalid, or inadequate, or sadly delusional, and expect anyone outside of your faith to take you seriously.

5.A lot of Christians are nothing more than spiritual bullies who go around using the Bible as a club. (And a lot aren’t, too, I know.) It’s weak. It’s embarassing. Finally, and mostly, it’s boring.

6.Christians can only talk, and can never listen.


paarsurrey says:




I leave it for the Christians as to how they come out of their narrow approach they have about other religions and how GodAllahYHWH guided other regions of the world.


Like Jesus guided humanity in Judea; and later Christianity spread in the West; sameway Buddha guided humanity in the East.


The PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 enumerates this scenario ; and I quote from him:


Let it be clear that Buddhist scriptures have made available to us evidence of various kinds, which, on the whole, is enough to prove that Jesus (on whom be peace) must have come to the Punjab and Kashmir, etc. I set out this evidence herein, so that all impartial people may first study it, and then by arranging it as a connected account in their minds, may themselves come to the aforesaid conclusion. Here is the evidence.


First: the titles given to the Buddha are similar to the titles given to Jesus. Likewise, the events of the life of Buddha resemble those of the life of Jesus. The reference here, however, is to the Buddhism of places within the boundaries of Tibet, like Leh, Lhasa, Gilgit and Hams, etc., which are the places about which it is proved that they were visited by Jesus. With reference to the similarity of titles, it is enough to point out, that if, for example, Jesus (on whom be peace) calls himself the Light in his teachings, so, Gautama has been named the Buddha, which in Sanskrit means Light.2


If Jesus has been called the Master2 in the gospel, so the Buddha has been called Sasta or the Master; if Jesus has been called Blessed in the Gospels, so the Buddha has been named Sugt, i.e., the Blessed. If Jesus has been called Prince, so has the Buddha been called Prince. Jesus has also been described by the Gospels as one who fulfils the object of his coming, so has the Buddha been called in Buddhistic scriptures Siddhartha i.e., one who fulfils the object of his coming.


Jesus has also been called by the Gospels the Refuge of the Tired, so has the Buddha in Buddhistic scriptures been called Asarn Sarm, i.e., the refuge of the refugeless. Jesus has also been called by the Gospels King, though he interpreted it as King of the Kingdom of Heaven, so also the Buddha has been called King. The similarity of events is proved by events such as these. Just as Jesus was tempted by the Devil with the riches and kingdoms of the world provided he prostrated himself to him, so was Buddha tempted when the Devil said to him that he would give him the pomp and splendour of kings if he abandoned the severity of his living and returned home. But, just as Jesus did not obey the Devil, so, it is recorded, the Buddha did not obey him. See Buddhism by T. W. Rhys Davids3; and Buddhism by Sir Monier Monier Williams4.


This shows that the same titles which Jesus ascribes in the gospels to himself, have in Buddhistic books, which were compiled much later, been similarly ascribed to the Buddha; and, just as Jesus was tempted by the Devil, so these books claim that the Buddha also was tempted by the Devil; nay, the account of the temptation of the Buddha as stated in these books, is longer than the account of the temptation of Jesus in the Christian Gospels.


It is recorded that when the Devil offered him the temptation of wealth and kingly honour, the Buddha was inclined to return home. He, however, did not obey this desire. But the same Devil met him again one night, bringing with him all his progeny, and frightened him by frightful appearances. To the Buddha these Devils appeared like snakes which were emitting fire from their mouths. The snakes began to throw fire and poison towards him but their poison was turned into flowers and the fire made a halo round the Buddha.


The Devil not having succeeded thus, called sixteen of his daughters, and asked them to reveal their beauty to the Buddha, but the latter was still unmoved. The Devil was balked in his designs. He adopted other means, but was unable to do anything against the steadfast Buddha, who continued to travel through higher and higher stages of spirituality, and after a long night, that is, after severe and protracted trials, he overcame his enemy the Devil; the Light of True Knowledge dawned upon him and, with the coming of the morning, i.e. as soon as his trials were over, he came to know all. The day this great battle ended was the day of the birth of Buddhism. Gautama was 35 years old then; he was called the Buddha or the Light and the Tree under which he was sitting at the time came to be known as the Tree of Light.


Now, if you open and see the Bible you will find how the Temptation of the Buddha resembles the Temptation of Jesus, so much so, that the Buddha’s age was nearly the same at that time as the age of Jesus. As it appears from Buddhist literature, the Devil did not appear to the Buddha in a corporeal visible form. It was a spectacle seen only by the Buddha.


It is very clear from the above that the titles given to Jesus and his teachings are very similar to that of Buddha. The Christians should understand that there is no moral case, in my opinion, for preferring Jesus over Buddha.



I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Comparison with a different viewpoint- always useful

June 3, 2008



I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. I respect your religion and your views about spirit/soul and/ or spirituality.


The PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 has explained the subject; though it might be somewhat different from yours; but at times one understands more by making a comparison with a different view and new vistas of understanding open up before one. May be you like it.


Your may like to access the following link:

Please read the first quetion answered there “The Physical, Moral and spiritual States of Man”.


You are also welcome to visit my blogsite if you could do so convenienty for comments on the posts/pages there and/ or for a peacful discussion.





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