Archive for the ‘Joseph Smith Junior’ Category

JWs and the Mormons claim that they are the only true Christians

January 12, 2010

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=89761#p89761
Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Mr Preet wrote:

paars, what do you mean by “Catholic Protestants”?

Manfred wrote:

Yes, that did make me laugh when I saw that…

Maybe is means somebody sort halfway between their respective positions, like Anglicans, perhaps? The children of a Christian mixed marriage?

If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?

Also, Mr Preet, I don’t think paarsurrey is remotely interested in the concept of trinity, he just posted his stuff here to make fun of it. He neither understands what is means nor wants to know. But somehow making strawman cases against it makes him feel good I think. Why, I have no idea. Why does he not take a really hard look at his “Jesus taken off the cross and emigrated to India” belief instead? Now that is so unbelievably silly, it really does not deserve consideration by a sane human being.

manfred wrote:

If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend manfred

The JWs and the Mormons claim that they are the only true Christians; hence I mention every follower of Paul (not of Jesus definitely) by the denomination he belongs to.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Gospels were written by anonymous writers

January 10, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/was-joseph-smith-junior-a-messengerprophet-of-jesus-and-not-of-god-allah-yhwh/#comment-844

ditchu says:

The bible was written by those inspired by God

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend ditchu

The Gospels were written by anonymous writers and only given names Matthew, Marks, John etc, to provide credence to them. How could you say they were inspired people? They wrote things of which they were not a first hand witness. Is hearsay an inspiration? Please don’t mind; we are discussing to know the truth. I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Paul was as unauthorized as was Joseph Smith

January 7, 2010

paarsurrey Says:
January 7, 2010 at 12:31 pm | Reply edit

Hi friend sch and others

Sorry to interrupt you.

Jesus was a Jew, he never started a Church, whenever he went he went to a Jewish temple. Paul was as unauthorized as was Joseph Smith in my opinion. The Gospel writers were also not authorized by Jesus to write anything on his behalf.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

There cannot be any reality of Jesus’ raising from the physical dead

June 18, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Paar it’s not that modern LDS Prophets and Apostles are witnesses so much to the event of crucifiction, they did not witness that to my knowledge, but they witness to the reality of Christ being raised from the dead! That he lives.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

Since Jesus did not die a cursed death on the Cross; so there cannot be any reality of Jesus’ raising from the physical dead. Joseph Smith or any other LDS people are therefore not correct in their witnessing that Jesus was raised from the dead or that he is physically or literally alive. Sorry, I don’t agree with this notion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

First Vision: Witout proper introduction, identifications and verifications; Joseph Smith mistook the personages

June 12, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Where do you get the information you base this belief on?

I know what the Holy Ghost feels like, I know it, the scriptures say that the Holy Ghost is sent directly from the Father, and he testifies of truth, I know there is a connection between the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and Heaven, the Heavens testify to it.

Paarsurrey says:

It is right from the First Vision of Joseph Smith which you posted to me. If Jesus could be tried by the Devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could not be any exception.

Jesus told Jews that they were Sons of the Devil; it is mentioned in John 8.

Witout proper introduction and verifications; Joseph Smith mistook the personages. It is his mistake not mines.
When Moses met God Allah YHWH; He properly introduced himself to Moses; and Moses saw no Son with Him:

[20:9] ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ‌ۖ لَهُ ٱلۡأَسۡمَآءُ ٱلۡحُسۡنَىٰ
[20:9] Allah — there is no God but He. His are the most beautiful names.

[20:10] وَهَلۡ أَتَٮٰكَ حَدِيثُ مُوسَىٰٓ
[20:10] And has the story of Moses come to thee?

[20:11] إِذۡ رَءَا نَارً۬ا فَقَالَ لِأَهۡلِهِ ٱمۡكُثُوٓاْ إِنِّىٓ ءَانَسۡتُ نَارً۬ا لَّعَلِّىٓ ءَاتِيكُم مِّنۡہَا بِقَبَسٍ أَوۡ أَجِدُ عَلَى ٱلنَّارِ هُدً۬ى
[20:11] When he saw a fire, he said to his family, ‘Tarry ye, I perceive a fire; perhaps I may bring you a brand therefrom or find guidance at the fire.’

[20:12] فَلَمَّآ أَتَٮٰهَا نُودِىَ يَـٰمُوسَىٰٓ
[20:12] And when he came to it, he was called by a voice, ‘O Moses,
[20:13] إِنِّىٓ أَنَا۟ رَبُّكَ فَٱخۡلَعۡ نَعۡلَيۡكَ‌ۖ إِنَّكَ بِٱلۡوَادِ ٱلۡمُقَدَّسِ طُوً۬ى
[20:13] ‘Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa.

[20:14] وَأَنَا ٱخۡتَرۡتُكَ فَٱسۡتَمِعۡ لِمَا يُوحَىٰٓ
[20:14] ‘And I have chosen thee; so hearken to what is revealed.

[20:15] إِنَّنِىٓ أَنَا ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّآ أَنَا۟ فَٱعۡبُدۡنِى وَأَقِمِ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ لِذِڪۡرِىٓ
[20:15] ‘Verily, I am Allah; there is no God beside Me. So serve Me, and observe Prayer for My remembrance.

[20:16] إِنَّ ٱلسَّاعَةَ ءَاتِيَةٌ أَكَادُ أُخۡفِيہَا لِتُجۡزَىٰ كُلُّ نَفۡسِۭ بِمَا تَسۡعَىٰ
[20:16] ‘Surely, the Hour is coming; I am going to manifest it, that every soul may be recompensed for its endeavour.

[20:17] فَلَا يَصُدَّنَّكَ عَنۡہَا مَن لَّا يُؤۡمِنُ بِہَا وَٱتَّبَعَ هَوَٮٰهُ فَتَرۡدَىٰ
[20:17] ‘So let not him who believes not therein and follows his own evil inclinations, turn thee away therefrom, lest thou perish.

[20:18] وَمَا تِلۡكَ بِيَمِينِكَ يَـٰمُوسَىٰ
[20:18] ‘And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?’

Joseph Smith- inundated by his own thoughts; when he heard somebody say, here is my son, without recognition; he assumed that the speaker was God Allah YHWH and the son was Jesus

June 11, 2009

Paarsurrey says:

“Jesus escaped death on the Cross, he never got alive from the dead, he never ascended to heaven, rather Jesus migrated to India, and he died naturally and peacefuly at the age of about 120 years in India.”

Markparker1 says:

This is not taught in the Old testament, New testament or Book of Mormon or any other Christian scripture, it’s actually opposite to what they testify, the twelve Apostles were eye witnesses, to Christs ressurrection, so were a large group of people who’s testimonies are in the Book of Mormon, and finally Joseph and other LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses. On top of that the Apostles taught they were witnesses and so too were the Holy Ghost.

Paarsurrey says:

It is well known that the Gospels and other book of the Bible were written with a spcific purpose; not as a statement of facts.

Now; you say that “LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses”; one wonders as to what sort of eye-witnesses were they; of the event of crucifixion. I think it is just another confirmation that there were factually no witnesses of the event who had witnessed and wrote their testimony.

I think they won’t have the courage to stand on a witnesses stand and face the cross-examination, in a real court of Law.

The LDS, Joseph Smith did not have a converse with God Allah YHWH as one could understand clearly from his First Vision. He was confused and inundated by his own thoughts; when he heard somebody say here is my son without recognition; he assumed that the speaker was God Allah YHWH and the son was Jesus. Such a fragile witnessing!

I respect your faith; you have the right to believe anything you think fit for your believing, there is no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

If Jesus could be tried by the devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could taste a bit of it or more; please don’t mind

June 11, 2009

Hi friend markparker1

Sorry I don’t agree with you; we can only accept Joseph Smith, if he would have been appointed by God Allah YHWH; his First Vision, all narrations, make it very clear to me that he was never in converse with God Allah YHWH and he was definitely not appointed by God Allah YHWH. He did not meet genuinely with Jesus even; it was only his wishful thinking that he met Jesus.

The questions he asked refelect his narrow approach towards faiths and religions; he asked only of the Churches. Joseph Smith did not know things of the past even, what to speak of the future. He did not know that Jesus escaped death on the Cross, he never got alive from the dead, he never ascended to heaven, rather Jesus migrated to India, and he died naturally and peacefuly at the age of about 120 years in India. Joseph Smith did not know all these things, so his meeting with Jesus was not real.

Joseph Smith mentioned features of Jesus as if he was a young man from Europe, with blue eyes and that; which is commonly held by the people in the West. Jesus was from the Jews of Jerusalem, who have different features. So, he was overwhelmed with the common thoughts of the Christians and inundated by his own thoughts; which might have appeared to him as if real; which was not real, only a reflection of his own self.

If Jesus could be tried by the devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could taste a bit of it or more; please don’t mind. Josepsh Smith admits that he was a sinful person; not like that of Messengers Prophets who were always innocent people, chosen by God Allah YHWH.

Joseph Smith was destined to die like Paul in terms of Deuteronmy; and he was killed by the people.

I respect your faith; yet I have to mention what I believe sincerely.

I love Messengers and Prophets as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Joseph Smith was not appointed by God Allah YHWH; and he asked irrelevant questions in the First Vision

June 10, 2009

Markparker1 says:

This is a link to the various accounts of his first vision:
http://eldenwatson.net/harmony.htm#31

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

Thanks for providing me the link. I want to have full text of all nine narrations made by Joseph Smith of his First Vision.

I find that the harmony link provided by you mentions the narrations in first person but some are in third person; why is it so?

Please don’t mind.

Joseph Smith was not appointed by God Allah YHWH; and he asked irrelevant questions in the First Vision.

Regards

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Could you please recall of a Converse/Revelation in which more than one person participated and talked with God Allah YHWH jointly

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

There are quite a few instances of visions where more than just Joseph were present, this is from april 1836:

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

Could you please recall of a Converse/Revelation in which more than one person participated and talked with God Allah YHWH jointly; from Moses from Jesus and other Messengers Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament or Torah.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Markparker1! Please provide all the accounts given by Joseph Smith of his First Vision; why he expressed differently for the First Vision?

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Parr, you do not seem familiar with the testimony of Joseph Smith, there are about 5 or more accounts he gave of just his first vision, some have details that others don’t, some are expressed a different way,

Paarsurrey says:

Please provide all the accounts given by Joseph Smith of his first vision. Why he expressed differently for the first vision?

I respect your faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful


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