Archive for the ‘Jesus’ Category

“Wasn’t Jesus a Muslim, please?”

November 16, 2017

“The word Muslim or muslim means a person who submits to God, and there is evidence that Jesus spoke in the Semitic language of Aramaic (similar to Hebrew) and so Jesus would have called God by the name of Allah – which is the Aramaic version of Elohim.”  JP Cusick 

Thread: “Wasn’t Jesus a Muslim, please? “Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma

Post 16: 

X— wrote:
Jesus was from Nazareth in Galilee. Definitions are fluid, but Galilee is generally considered to be part of Judea at that time.

JP Cusick wrote:


You keep repeating that same claim but it will never become accurate or true.

The area of Galilee was never ever (never ever) a part of Judea and it was not under Jewish control.

Today the area of Galilee is controlled by the Jewish State only because they have stolen the land from the Palestinians.

And the first time the Jews are mentioned in the Bible then they are at war with Israel, see 2 Kings 16:5-7, so making claims is far different then speaking true.

Jesus was called the Nazarene* because He was from Nazareth, and Jesus was rejected by the Jews because He did not preach the Jewish religion, and the Jews can claim the Old Testament as their own but the Hebrew Testament is not Jewish.

The word Muslim or muslim means a person who submits to God, and there is evidence that Jesus spoke in the Semitic language of Aramaic (similar to Hebrew) and so Jesus would have called God by the name of Allah – which is the Aramaic version of Elohim.

 

 

Quote:
Jesus was called the Nazarene*

Paarsurrey wrote:

I agree with one here and like the post.

It is one aspect of this that Quran names the truthful followers of Jesus as naṣrāni- singular , and naṣārā- plural:

AYAH al-Imran 3:67 – Quran
Turansliteration :Ma kana ibraheemu yahoodiyyan wala nasraniyyan walakin kana haneefan musliman wama kana mina almushrikeena

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian*, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists.”
http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(3:67:6)
* or naṣrāni-yyan, the plural of which is naṣārā

Regards

Advertisements

The fictional “human sacrifice” of Jesus

November 15, 2017

The fictional “human sacrifice” of Jesus for the atonement of Pauline-Christians’ sins neither took pace nor it was ever needed. JW’s including, all the Pauline-Christianity people , who bank for their sins upon Jesus’ “human sacrifice” are as sinful as they would have been without it, please.

Thread: “Roman executioner’s are not priests,” 
and the cross is not an altar 
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma

X——— wrote:
Roman executioners are not priests, and the cross is not an altar. So how can Jesus execution be considered a “payment for sin”? In any kind of a theologically legal sense, that is.

If Jesus death is truly a legal “payment for sin” as Paul seems to teach, and as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, (ransom), then wouldn’t his death have to be performed on the Temple altar, at the hands of a Jewish priest?

1) Is the idea of Jesus death as a “payment for sin” anything more than a metaphor? A metaphor that is useful for Paul and his followers, but not for everyone.

2) Is the notion of Jesus martyrdom as a “payment for sin” Divine revelation? Or theological speculation.

3) Seems Paul wanted to play the legal, Priestly game in regard to Jesus death, so why wouldn’t the legal, priestly rules have disqualified his interpretations?

4) Is Pauline blood-atonement theology legalistic?

5) Would Jesus have approved of such a legalistic approach?

Please address any combination of the above.

Paarsurrey wrote:

One’s points are very reasonable.

Since Jesus survived death on the Cross as he was delivered in near-death position from the Cross, he was treated in the tomb by his friends for his injuries inflicted upon him on the Cross. Jesus remained in hiding, met only to his followers secretly, did not meet the public or the “adulterous Jews” to whom he was to show a sign as promised by him, and went out of Judea lest the Jews catch him and crucify him again.

The fictional* “human sacrifice” of Jesus for the atonement of Pauline-Christians’ sins neither took pace nor it was ever needed. JW’s including, all the Pauline-Christianity people , who bank for their sins upon Jesus’ “human sacrifice” are as sinful as they would have been without it, please.

Regards

________
*One may like to read:
The Pagan Christ

“The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light is a 2004 non-fiction book by Canadian writer Tom Harpur (1929-2017), a former Anglican priest, journalist and professor of Greek and New Testament at the University of Toronto, which supports the Christ myth theory.[1] Harpur claims that the New Testament shares a large number of similarities with ancient Egyptian and other pagan religions, that early Church leaders fabricated a literal and human Jesus based on ancient myths, and that we should return to an inclusive and universal religion where the spirit of Christ or Christos lives within each of us.

The book was named the Canadian non-fiction bestseller of the year by both the Toronto Star and The Globe and Mail. It was later released under the title The Pagan Christ: Is Blind Faith Killing Christianity? in the United States by Walker Books and in Australia by Allen Unwin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pagan_Christ

Jesus to establish no new Church in Second Coming

October 27, 2017

Thread: “The Second Coming – Why would there be a need for a church ”
Forum: Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Christianity and Apologetics

Post 27: 

[Replying to post 1 by p————e]

Quote:
Four times in the New Testament it is recorded that Jesus would return during his generation. But he didn’t.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Bible got it wrong for obvious reasons.
Jesus’ Second Coming was to rectify the wrong teachings that Paul, his associates and the Church had spread unauthorized from Jesus. 
Jesus’ Second Coming has already taken place in the spiritual form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi and End-Time Reformer of all religions. He has categorically stated that:

~no Jesus is to come from the skies as Jesus had not died on the Cross and died a natural death out of Judea .
~the concept of Trinity spread by the Church is wrong.
~Jesus was neither a God nor a Son of God in the literal and physical terms.
~there is no god by the name the Holy Spirit.
~There is only ONE God and none else.
~Jesus was a human being only and a truthful prophet/messenger of God.
~Jesus did not atone anybody’s sins, it is ONE God who forgives sins of the persons who ask forgiveness from Him.
~Jesus neither established any new Church in his First Coming nor he is to establish a new church in his Second Coming.

This is in brief, please.
Regards
_____________
For more details one my like to read here https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Jesus-in-India.pdf

“Jesus mission. Which is it?” 

October 11, 2017

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=889025#889025

Which is it?
Jesus mission.

Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Christianity and Apologetics

Post 28: 

E——n wrote:
Matthew 15.24

Quote:
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

 

or

Matthew 28.19

 

Quote:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

What was Jesus mission, his intended audience?

How does one reconcile the two seemingly contradictory statements?

Is the “Risen Christ” on the same page as the pre-Easter, “historical Jesus”?

Paarsurrey wrote:

Jesus’ mission was precisely and specific towards the Beni Israel or children of Israel:

[3:46] When the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:49] “And He will teach him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;
[3:50] “And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers.
[3:51] ‘And I come fulfilling that which is before me, namely, the Torah; and to allow you some of that which was forbidden you; and I come to you with a Sign from your Lord; so fear Allah and obey me.
[3:52] ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord; so worship Him: this is the right path.’ ”
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=3&verse=49
Jesus was a follower of Moses and was to reform Moses’ followers and set them on teachings descended on Moses from the On-True-God. Jesus mission was not to propagate creeds like Trinity which is similar making and worshiping “Golden Calf” done while Moses was alive and as per Torah Moses had to kill three thousand Jews*.
Right, please?

Regards
_____________
*Exodus 32:28

27 He said to them, “Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, ‘Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.'” 28 So the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day.
http://biblehub.com/exodus/32-28.htm

Did apostles think they were writing the ‘word of God’? 

October 9, 2017

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=888766#888766

Post 21: Did apostles think they were writing the ‘word of God’?

paarsurrey1 wrote:
NT Gospels were anonymous verbal narratives*, adopted and doctored by Paul**, his associates**, and the Church**, and named after apostles^ just for credulity/ credence. Right, please?
Regards___________
*https://celsus.blog/2013/12/17/why-scholars-doubt-the-traditional-authors-of-the-gospels/**”All the Gospels are Anonymous Until 180-185CE”:
http://www.humanreligions.info/gospels.html^https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/40996/how-were-the-authors-of-the-four-gospels-literate

r—-g wrote:

Hmmm. Ok. So tell me then — what would motivate Paul to do that ? Do you choose to discard God’s mercy and grace thru Christ so easily which is God’s gospel message thru Paul?

paarsurrey1 wrote:

Paul had no message of One-True-God’s mercy and grace with him, neither from One-True-God nor from Jesus.Paul was an enemy of Jesus and his followers and he remained as such when Jesus migrated from Judea. Paul only changed his strategy. He changed the message of One-True-God and corrupted the teachings of Jesus. Paul did it very cleverly aide by his associates and the Church established by him in the name of Jesus-Christ. Jesus never established any Church, he was a Jewish Prophet and remained as such, please.
Isn’t it strange, please?

Regards

 

 

“Jesus in Japan”

August 28, 2017

Japan Jesus

Tomb of Jesus in Japan:

On the flat top of a steep hill in a distant corner of northern Japan lies the tomb of an itinerant shepherd who, two millennia ago, settled down there to grow garlic. He fell in love with a farmer’s daughter named Miyuko, fathered three kids and died at the ripe old age of 106. In the mountain hamlet of Shingo, he’s remembered by the name Daitenku Taro Jurai. The rest of the world knows him as Jesus Christ.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-little-known-legend-of-jesus-in-japan-165354242/#DtWkHpDUlp534RrL.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Is Jesus separate from the father?

May 28, 2015

Please view and comment on my post at <www.religiousforums.com><Thread : Is Jesus separate from the father?>. One may join discussion

Jesus not G-d

May 11, 2015

www.religiousforums.com > <How can God be Jesus, and the father, yet Jesus not be the father?>

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/how-can-god-be-jesus-and-the-father-yet-jesus-not-be-the-father.176806/#post-4283209

  1. Post #2
  2. Topic: How can God be Jesus, and the father, yet Jesus not be the father?

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Jesus was never a G-d. It is a wrong notion.
    Regards

    Post #4

Paarsurrey wrote:

You mean that Jesus was a manifestation of G-d like Abraham, Moses and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908? Please elaborate.

Regards

  1. Post #7

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    What do you mean by literal? Do you mean Jesus was not real?
    Regards

     Post #14

Paarsurrey wrote:

All prophets/messengers of G-d like Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) being in the image of G-d were endowed this deific nature; Jesus/Esa had no distinction whatsoever in this connection.

Regards

Prophets: Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus

July 4, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3827858-post80.html
Please click the above link to know the context of discussion and join the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinayaka

“paarsurrey, I feel you will continue to project your idea about what a prophet is onto Hinduism, even if 100 Hindus came here and told you Hinduism doesn’t have prophets. So you will always have your ‘truth’ and we will always have ours.

This is the result of subconscious mind (memory mind) conditioning, and quite understandable. You’ve read or been told over and over that all religions have prophets, so have come to believe it.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

This sub-forum is not DIR; when somebody writes here, it implies that one wants an open discussion.

There are Hindu denominations who think that Krishna definitely made a prophecy for the latter days; and I quoted it from a Hindu site.

If some or many or all Hindus consider Krishna a god; not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy for future that stands fulfilled now; so in this sense he is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

This prophecy has many parallels.

Likewise Jesus made a prophecy for the latter days; his Second Coming in the End of times; and everybody here knows that Christians consider Jesus a god, not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy that stands fulfilled now, so in this sense Jesus is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Buddha; though not all Buddhists worship him as god. I consider Buddha also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Zoroaster; but his followers definitely don’t worship him and are monotheists and I have read many of their scriptures, very beautiful scriptures. So I have no reason not to believe in his being a truthful prophet and no reason not to believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Moses; though the Judaism people don’t consider him god; but definitely in “image of G-d”. And Judaism people also wait for a Moshiach.I consider Moses also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise… and likewise and likewise…

Where do I err please?

Since some other non-Hindus; probably or most probably Christians also written here.

Should the globe be divided into many parts; one created and ruled by Krishna and another created and ruled by Jesus. Should we reasonably and rationally divide the humanity in pieces and the infinite pieces as there are said to be 32000+ denominations of Christianity and innumerable (exact figure not known, please tell me exactly) denominations of Hinduism and other religions .

While apparently there is no difference between a human in the East or human in the West and North and South.

My questions are addressed to everybody and open for response to everybody.

To make it clear; I am and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Regards

Jesus’ core teachings mention of a loving One-True-God

February 28, 2014

Jesus’ core teachings mention of a loving One-True-God

“The Wrath of God”
http://gulliblestravelsdma.wordpress.com/
http://gulliblestravelsdma.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/the-wrath-of-god-2/#comment-3238

paarsurreysaid:
February 28, 2014 at 9:49 am

@Ruth:February 27, 2014 at 8:16 pm

Yet; it is not difficult to discern truth from the wrong.
Jesus mentions the core teachings of religions:

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:36-40
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A36-40

It does not mentions of an unloving One-True-God.

I think you did not make any study of comparative religions under an appropriate principle; you just joined Atheism out of convenience.