Archive for the ‘Jesus did not ascend to heaven’ Category

Was Jesus Crucified or Not?

May 8, 2019

#227 paarsurrey

Jesus did not die on the Cross, so there is no question of any resurrection. It is as simple as that. Nothing extraordinary supernatural happened.



Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?

April 23, 2019

Blog post # 2220

Religious Forums

#1 paarsurrey 

Case in study some 2000 years ago in Jerusalem,please.
Is it a sin,please?
or it is no sin,please.
First to define as to what one understands from the word “suicide”, one’s own understanding, not from a lexicon,please.
Thread open to everybody of religion or no religion, absolutely no restriction,please.



  1. Thread prompted from the thread of our friend @shunyadragon in another Forum post #1 .
  2. The exact location Golgotha, or Calvary, was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem’s walls.
  3. Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. [​IMG]The Garden Tomb in Jerusalem.
  4. Tomb of Hazrat Youza Asaf at Roza Bal.Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din[​IMG] Roza Bal shrine – The sign reads “Ziarati Hazrati Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din.
  5. Witness of Jesus after some 1850 years in Iran maybe or may not be, Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí.
  6. Jesus in Kashmir
  7. Meher Baba, 1925[edit]
    Meher Baba (1894-1969)
    According to Indian spiritual master Meher Baba, when Jesus was crucified, he did not die physically. But, he entered the state of Nirvikalp Samadhi (the I-am-God state without bodily consciousness). On the third day, he again became conscious of his body, and he travelled secretly in disguise eastward with some apostles, most importantly with Bartholomew and Thaddeus, to India. This was called Jesus’ resurrection. After reaching India, Jesus travelled further east to Rangoon, in Burma, where he remained for some time. He then went north to Kashmir, where he settled. After Jesus’s spiritual work was completed, Jesus subsequently dropped his body, and the body was buried by the Two Apostles in Harvan, at Kan Yar, district of Kashmir.[50]Holger Kersten, 1981[edit]
    In 1981, Holger Kersten, a German writer on esoteric subjects popularised the subject in his Christ Lived in India.[51] Kersten’s ideas were among various expositions of the theory critiqued by Günter Grönbold in Jesus in Indien. Das Ende einer Legende(Munich, 1985).[52] Wilhelm Schneemelcherstates that the work of Kersten (which builds on Ahmad and The Aquarian Gospel) is fantasy and has nothing to do with historical research.[11]Schneemelcher states that Kersten combines elements from various previous authors such as Notovitch, Ahmadiyya beliefs, and Levi Dowling.[11]Gerald O’Collins also states that Kersten’s work is simply the repackaging of a legend for consumption by the general public.[12]

    Among texts cited by Kersten, following Andreas Faber-Kaiser, is the third khanda of the Pratisarga Parvan in the Bhavishya Mahapurana which contains discussion of “Isa Masih” and Muhammed. However Indologists such as Grönbold note that this section postdates not just the Quran,[53] but also the Mughals. Hiltebeitel (2009) establishes 1739 as the very earliest possible date for the section.[54]


#5 paarsurrey

Further to the OP #1:
“Swami Abhedananda, 1922[edit]

Main article: Swami Abhedananda
In 1922 Swami Abhedananda, the founder of Vedanta Society of New York 1897 and the author of several books, went to Himalayas on foot and reached Tibet, where he studied Buddhistic philosophy and Lamaism. He was one of the skeptics who tried to debunk Nicholas Notovitch and disprove the existence of the manuscript about Jesus in India. However, when he reached Hemis monastery he found the manuscript which was a Tibetan translation of the original scrolls written in Pali. The lama said that it was a copy and the original was in a monastery at Marbour near Lhasa. After Abhedananda’s death in 1939, one of his disciples inquired about the documents at the Hemis monastery, but was told they disappeared.[40][41]
Unknown years of Jesus – Wikipedia
2.Jesus In India
by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as)
Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya
3.BBC Documentary:4.Jesus in Kashmir (India)-Documentary by Indian Govt.



#6 paarsurrey

As per the Christian core creed Jesus came to this world to die a cursed death for atonement of their sins and to save them. This means his death on Cross was a suicide one.
Wasn’t it, please?



#8 paarsurrey 

But being a god, as per the Christianity, Jesus himself decided that he himself should die on the Cross, so definitely it was a suicide case. It also makes him sinful having committed a suicide, so an innocent man becomes sinful so this suicide was meaningless as as per , Christianity, only death of an innocent man cannot atone their sins. So the sins of the Christianity people remains without atonement and it adherents unsaved by their non-innocent Savior. Right, please
A futile exercise, isn’t it, please?



Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?
#9 paarsurrey

Christ of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna
Jesus in Kashmir



#11 paarsurrey

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. In Islam suicide for a normal, intelligent person is a sin. Please read my post
#52 in another thread. Allah says:
یٰۤاَیُّہَا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا لَا تَاۡکُلُوۡۤا اَمۡوَالَکُمۡ بَیۡنَکُمۡ بِالۡبَاطِلِ اِلَّاۤ اَنۡ تَکُوۡنَ تِجَارَۃً عَنۡ تَرَاضٍ مِّنۡکُمۡ ۟ وَ لَا تَقۡتُلُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ کَانَ بِکُمۡ رَحِیۡمًا ﴿۳۰﴾
O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 4: An-Nisa’

Muslim scholars and clerics consider suicide forbidden, including suicide bombing.[19][20][21][22][23][24]
The prohibition of suicide has also been recorded in statements of hadith (sayings of Muhammad); for example:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire.”
— Sahih al-Bukhari2:23:446
Religious views on suicide – Wikipedia



“Where are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth?”

September 23, 2015

Post #196

Further to post #183 in the thread.
Paarsurrey wrote:
There are people who claim to be physical descendants of Jesus, their claim should be paid due attention to by the researchers, like Olsson of France, the 59th descendant of Jesus and seeking DNA testing of the shrine’s remains. It is a challenge to the lovers of Jesus.

Roza Bal shrine

“That Jesus survived crucifixion, travelled to Kashmir, eventually died there and is buried in Srinagar is an urban legend which has found many takers over the years. Every season hundreds of tourists visit the Rozabal shrine of Sufi saint Yuz Asaf in downtown Srinagar, believed by many to be the final resting place of Christ.”

“Olsson arrived in Srinagar, claiming to be Christ’s ’59th descendant’ and seeking DNA testing of the shrine’s remains.
In a series of letters to the shrine’s caretakers , Olsson said she considers Rozabal a “private family tomb” . She further wrote: “My family has it (sic) origins in France, where Jesus and his wife Mary Magdalene lived for 30 years after the crucifixion. There they had two sons and one daughter. We’re descendants of the son. And if you wish to know more, I refer you to a book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail by Sir Lawrence Gardner.” Olsson went on to add that she was considering moving court to press her claim and secure the right to exhume the tomb. “We feel any claims you make about the sanctity of the grave are invalid … we would prefer to move our grandfather (out of Srinagar).”…us-buried-in-Srinagar/articleshow/5906304.cms
It is a strong clue. Empty tomb did not tell that Jesus ascended to sky. It is a wrong notion.

Discussion forum <>Thread: “Where are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth?””.

Please click the post #196  to view, to comment and or join discussion on the topic.

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