Archive for the ‘divinity of Jesus’ Category

Gospel of John is the only gospel to call Jesus God

May 1, 2021

Please view paarsurrey’s post #1023 on Religious Forum on the thread ” Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection  by clicking the post number.

Love For All Hatred For None

Exxxxxx (a Christian Believer) quoted ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:3-11‬ ‭NKJV, ““Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

#1023 <<<<<paarsurrey said ( click post number to get to the discussion)

It confirms, I understand, point # 9 among the following 14 points taken by me from Wikipedia, a research article by scholars :

  1. (Definition of*) Gospel[note 1] originally meant the Christian message, but in the 2nd century it came to be used also for the books in which the message was set out;[2] in this sense a gospel can be defined as a loose-knit, episodic narrative of the words and deeds of Jesus of Nazareth,
  2. Mark never calls him (Jesus*) “God”,[6]
  3. They (the 4-Gospels*) contain details which are irreconcilable, and attempts to harmonize them would be disruptive to their distinct theological messages.[8]
  4. They were probably written between AD 66 and 110.[9][10][11]
  5. All four were anonymous (the modern names were added in the 2nd century),
  6. almost certainly none (of the 4-Gospels*) were by eyewitnesses, and all are the end-products of long oral and written transmission.[12] Modern scholars are cautious of relying on the gospels uncritically, but nevertheless they do provide a good idea of the public career of Jesus, and critical study (of 4-Gospels) can attempt to distinguish the original ideas of Jesus (before the event of Crucifixion*) from those of the later authors (who wrote after or much after the event of Crucifixion*).[18][19]
  7. Mark never calls him (Jesus) “God” or claims that he existed prior to his earthly life, apparently believes that he had a normal human parentage and birth, makes no attempt to trace his ancestry back to King David or Adam, and originally had no post-resurrection appearances,[6] [21] although Mark 16:7, in which the young man discovered in the tomb instructs the women to tell “the disciples and Peter” that Jesus will see them again in Galilee, hints that the author knew of the tradition.[22]
  8. the miracle stories in Mark confirm Jesus’ status as an emissary of God (which was Mark’s understanding of the Messiah), but in Matthew they demonstrate divinity.[25]
  9. The Gospel of John is the only gospel to call Jesus God. In contrast to Mark, where Jesus hides his identity as messiah, in John he openly proclaims it.[28]
  10. all four are anonymous and most scholars agree that none were written by eyewitnesses.[32]
  11. Their source was the Greek version of the scriptures, called the Septuagint – they do not seem familiar with the original Hebrew.[43]
  12. they present the Christian message of the second half of the first century AD,[46] and as Luke’s attempt to link the birth of Jesus to the census of Quirinius demonstrates, there is no guarantee that the gospels are historically accurate.[47]
  13. Matthew 1:18, altered to imply the pre-existence of Jesus.[50]
  14. (John …..) its testimony that Jesus was executed before, rather than on, Passover, might well be more accurate

Gospel – Wikipedia

This is in line with Quran authored by God:

لَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفَ الۡمَسِیۡحُ اَنۡ یَّکُوۡنَ عَبۡدًا لِّلّٰہِ وَ لَا الۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃُ الۡمُقَرَّبُوۡنَ ؕ وَ مَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفۡ عَنۡ عِبَادَتِہٖ وَ یَسۡتَکۡبِرۡ فَسَیَحۡشُرُہُمۡ اِلَیۡہِ جَمِیۡعًا ﴿۱۷۳﴾
Surely, [a]the Messiah will never disdain to be a servant of Allah, nor will the angels near unto God; and whoso disdains to worship Him and feels proud, He will gather them all to Himself.
Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

*some explanatory additions obvious in the context within brackets are done by me for ease of understanding.

Paul Manning, 35 yrs bible study; ex teacher, part time mechanic, engineer, IOW kiwi male Answered October 10, 2018

The gospel of John is the only one of the four that gets twisted to make out as if Jesus is saying he is God. Jesus had no interest in suggesting he was God; he had enough to do being God’s son, and as Messiah had to remain sinless so as to fulfil his father’s word. Making himself out to be his own father would have been extremely confusing for all concerned as well as counter-productive.

However you are right in suggesting that Christianity evolved* its teachings over time to arrive at what is currently believed. It was not the gospel of John that caused it but he gets the blame, seeing that there was sufficient enigmatic material in there to confuse, divide, and conquer the new churches.

paarsurrey comments:

*It is not evolving of Christianity, it is the case of corrupting Jesus’ teachings which Jesus taught and acted upon prior to the event of Crucifixion.

Jesus created nothing; he was no god

January 28, 2010

paarsurrey Says:
January 28, 2010 at 2:43 pm

Hi friend sch

Now see my friend; how many prophecies of Jesus you have mentioned in your post (which I have described as ocean of words); I have counted them to be 25 in number, if not more. So that makes Jesus a good Prophet Messenger of Creator-God Allah YHWH and that is all.

It proves that Jesus was not a god. Had Jesus been a god; then you would have mentioned things created by Jesus? Jesus did not create anything; everything was as before him.

If you want to prove Jesus to be a creator-god; mention things he created; Jesus did not create anything. Please mention as many things created by Jesus at least 25 of them like Sun, Moon and Earth; not even one of these.

The sign- the biggest one of Jesus, was that of Jonah- the Prophet; not of any god or of the Creator.
I think, now you understand and agree with me.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Jesus never in fact claimed any deity in literal terms

January 24, 2010

Hi friend sch

I thank you for sending me an ocean of words , not on the topic , yet not quoting in your reply as I have asked you any verses from the OTBible or Torah where punishment for the claimant of divinity has been mentioned for Jews by Moses.

You may quote it now, if you like; there is however no compulsion.
So Jesus was a claimant of the office of a Prophet Messenger of the Creator -God Allah YHWH; and Jews tried to punish him as a false Prophet Messenger as mentioned in Deuteronomy 13 and Leviticus 24.
There is no punishment in Torah for a claimant of Divinity; so this was not a charge against Jesus by the Jews; Jesus never in fact claimed any deity in literal terms.

Jesus survived death on the Cross and later he migrated to India; and thus Jews failed in their designs and Jesus was proved a truthful Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Jesus was not a crazy man to claim divinty

January 22, 2010

Hi friend Aaron

You say “The punishment for blasphemy, according to Mosaic Law, was death (Leviticus 24:16”.

Let us see what is mentioned in the verses quoted by you.

Leviticus 24:10-20

10 And behold there went out the son of a woman of Israel, whom she had of an Egyptian, among the children of Israel, and fell at words in the camp with a man of Israel.
11 And when he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it, he was brought to Moses: (now his mother was called Salumith, the daughter of Dabri, of the tribe of Dan:) 12 And they put him into prison, till they might know what the Lord would command. 13 And the Lord spoke to Moses, 14 Saying: Bring forth the blasphemer without the camp, and let them that heard him, put their hands upon his head, and let all the people stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak to the children of Israel: the man that curseth his God, shall bear his sin:
16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die: all the multitude shall stone him, whether he be a native or a stranger. He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die. 17 He that striketh and killeth a man, dying let him die. 18 He that killeth a beast, shall make it good, that is to say, shall give beast for beast. 19 He that giveth a blemish to any of his neighbours: as he hath done, so shall it be done to him: 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, shall he restore. What blemish he gave, the like shall he be compelled to suffer.

Now we look into the verses as mentioned by you.

1. Now the passage mentions the man “he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it”, it does not say with transparency that the man claimed to be God; he cursed God as is written there and that does not make one claimant of divinity, for sure.
2. So I don’t think that you have been able to quote any appropriate verse for punishment of a claimant of God from Moses.
3. Unless you mention such a verse; I don’t think that there was any punishments of claiming a god; as it is obviously a crazy claim for a human being; does not involve any punishment in this world as there is no ambiguity in it.
4. How could Jesus make such a crazy claim? And why should he when he was not a god; he did not die on Cross and like Moses who migrated from Egypt to Arabian Peninsula to save his life; so did Jesus, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position and later when he recovered from the injuries, secretly, he made good his escape to India; so like Moses he was only a Prophet of God.
5. If as you say (though it is totally incorrect) that Jesus claimed literal divinity; then the Jews should have insisted that Jesus be stoned in the public as per the Law of Moses; they preferred to hang him on the Cross, just to prove that he was a cursed man; and that Jesus was not, he was Chosen-One of God and His beloved.

Please find some transparent verses from Moses in the issue to strengthen your claim.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks and regards.

NTBible (or Gospels) is neither Word of God nor Word of Jesus

January 22, 2010

Wootah wrote:

Reason isn’t native to you; is it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Reason is very natural with me; of course, as our Quran is Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, has claims and reason on every topic relating to ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of human beings in it.

The NTBible is neither Word of the Creator -God Allah YHWH, nor of Jesus, so it is naturally bereft of claims and the reasons. The Claims and reason have to be imported invariably from out of the Gospels or just from the imagination. They loan it from the cunning Paul or the clever Church.

This proves that NTBible is not Word of God.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


The sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god?

January 22, 2010

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

Paarsurrey says:

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.

Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.

Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?

Perhaps that answers your question also.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Sign of Jonah; the biggest Sign Jesus ever promised showing; could make him maximum a Prophet only and could not add divinity to Jesus

January 22, 2010

Aaron Says:

If Jesus never claimed divinity then what was the charge for which the Jews found Him guilty and deserving of death by crucifixion?

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend aaron

The Jews wanted to kill Jesus for his claim of being a prophet; and Jesus they held to be a false prophet and for this they hanged Jesus to further prove that Jesus was a cursed man also.

In the Old Testament

“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).

The penalty for false prophecy, according to the biblical context, is capital punishment (per Deuteronomy 13:1-5).

“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Deuteronomy 21:22-23

22 When a man hath committed a crime for which he is to be punished with death, and being condemned to die is hanged on a gibbet: 23 His body shall not remain upon the tree, but shall be buried the same day: for he is accursed of God that hangeth on a tree: and thou shalt not defile thy land, which the Lord thy God shall give thee in possession.

Jonah was a Prophet of God Allah YHWH; if Jesus promised Jews to show them Sign of Jonah and he considered it to be his biggest sigh; then Jesus could only be a Prophet and not a god. This also shows that he considered himself to be only a Prophet of God Allah YHWH; and that is why God Allah YHWH saved Jesus life and after that Jesus went to India.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


What did Jesus say about himself?-in Quran

May 12, 2009

Brooksrobinson says:

And so I ask you paarsurrey…What did Jesus say about himself?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend brooksrobinson

Thank you for asking this question. Jesus said about himself as per Quran:

[5:73] لَقَدۡ ڪَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلۡمَسِيحُ ٱبۡنُ مَرۡيَمَ‌ۖ وَقَالَ ٱلۡمَسِيحُ يَـٰبَنِىٓ إِسۡرَٲٓءِيلَ ٱعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّڪُمۡ‌ۖ إِنَّهُ ۥ مَن يُشۡرِكۡ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدۡ حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيۡهِ ٱلۡجَنَّةَ وَمَأۡوَٮٰهُ ٱلنَّارُ‌ۖ وَمَا لِلظَّـٰلِمِينَ مِنۡ أَنصَارٍ۬
[5:73] Indeed they are disbelievers who say, ‘Surely, Allah is none but the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah himself said, ‘O children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.
[5:74] لَّقَدۡ ڪَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَـٰثَةٍ۬‌ۘ وَمَا مِنۡ إِلَـٰهٍ إِلَّآ إِلَـٰهٌ۬ وَٲحِدٌ۬‌ۚ وَإِن لَّمۡ يَنتَهُواْ عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡهُمۡ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
[5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
[5:75] أَفَلَا يَتُوبُونَ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَيَسۡتَغۡفِرُونَهُ ۥ‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬
[5:75] Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
[5:76] مَّا ٱلۡمَسِيحُ ٱبۡنُ مَرۡيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ۬ قَدۡ خَلَتۡ مِن قَبۡلِهِ ٱلرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ ۥ صِدِّيقَةٌ۬‌ۖ ڪَانَا يَأۡڪُلَانِ ٱلطَّعَامَ‌ۗ ٱنظُرۡ ڪَيۡفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ ٱلۡأَيَـٰتِ ثُمَّ ٱنظُرۡ أَنَّىٰ يُؤۡفَكُونَ
[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
[5:77] قُلۡ أَتَعۡبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ مَا لَا يَمۡلِكُ لَڪُمۡ ضَرًّ۬ا وَلَا نَفۡعً۬ا‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ هُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلۡعَلِيمُ
[5:77] Say, ‘Will you worship beside Allah that which has no power to do you harm or good?’ And it is Allah Who is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.
[5:78] قُلۡ يَـٰٓأَهۡلَ ٱلۡڪِتَـٰبِ لَا تَغۡلُواْ فِى دِينِڪُمۡ غَيۡرَ ٱلۡحَقِّ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوٓاْ أَهۡوَآءَ قَوۡمٍ۬ قَدۡ ضَلُّواْ مِن قَبۡلُ وَأَضَلُّواْ ڪَثِيرً۬ا وَضَلُّواْ عَن سَوَآءِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ
[5:78] Say, ‘O People of the Book! exceed not the limits in the matter of your religion unjustly, nor follow the evil inclinations of a people who went astray before and caused many to go astray, and who have strayed away from the right path.’
[5:79] لُعِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ ڪَفَرُواْ مِنۢ بَنِىٓ إِسۡرَٲٓءِيلَ عَلَىٰ لِسَانِ دَاوُ ۥدَ وَعِيسَى ٱبۡنِ مَرۡيَمَ‌ۚ ذَٲلِكَ بِمَا عَصَواْ وَّڪَانُواْ يَعۡتَدُونَ
[5:79] Those amongst the children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and used to transgress.

Jesus denied that he was God; he was an obedient servant of God Allah YHWH , whom he sometimes described as Father.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran; not the one erroneusly described in the Bible- authored by cunning Paul and sinful scribes.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus had not an iota of divinity in him; not a single attribute of God Allah YHWH was in Jesus. Jesus was a man through and through

May 12, 2009

~To err is human to forget divine; is a Western usage or proverb immersed in deep human psychy and nature, and a truth of human understanding. Man makes mistakes; and on his repentance God forgives.

Wdednh says:

“And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death-even death on a cross!” – Philippians 2:8

Dear Ahmadi,

Jesus was fearful of the suffering he knew he would get, See being God and knowing what is coming and than you add human part… none the less He willingly obeyed the God the father and went to the cross to correct the first disobedient act OF ADAM; the First man. It is an understanding that Muslims and in that respect other sect always deny this act, for with out it there is no salvation.


Paarsurrey says;

Hi friend wdednh

I respect your faith. It is your birth right to believe in freely you are convinced or unconvinced with.

As for me, sorry; why add a human part to Jesus for the Christians, for nothing? I don’t agree with you to add it to Jesus unless you are convinced that he was never a god, nor he could be one logically. If you are willing to admit that Jesus was not a god, then of course I would agree for you that Jesus was a human. A human and god have paradoxical attributes only showing the confusion of the cunning Paul and the sinful scribes of the gospels.

For being a man it is essential for one to err. That is an essential part of the human attributes; if a man never makes a mistake then he is not a human being for sure to start with. It is only God who never makes mistakes; if He makes mistakes, then he is not logically a God; as simple as that.

The Catholics Protestants have a choice; they should admit that Jesus was a human being and god he never was. It is on record that Jesus made certain mistakes, so he was a human being. If the Christians insist that Jesus was a man; then the onus of proving that Jesus used to make mistakes, is on the Christians; and they are welcome to point out mistakes that Jesus made from the Bible, authored by sinful Paul and the sinful scribes.

The story of Adam tells us that Adam made mistakes; he erred because he was a human being. God Allah YHWH forgave Adam when he asked forgiveness for his sins; God had the divinity and power to forgive, so He exercised that. This nature of Adam, to err, is what has been in the genes of the human beings and which is hereditary in the human beings. When Jesus voluntarily admitted that he was a Son of Man or Son of Adam; then he logically admitted and accepted that he was apt to err.

Excepting the weird psychology of the cunning and sinful Paul who cleverly wanted Jesus of Bible to ride two horses at the same time; it is very plain that Jesus had no divinity in him; not a single attribute of God Allah YHWH was in Jesus, Jesus was a man through and through.

This is what I sincerely believe in rationally, logically and reasonably. However, you are welcome to prove your point, if you can, in the same spirit. You know I am a good listener.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus prayed to God all night, on his face, and in tears

March 20, 2009

Paarsurrey replies to a Christian friend who commented on the above post, thus:

Hi friend modelbill,
Third reply from Second Coming 1835-1908:

Jesus in India

Among the testimonies which show that Jesus (peace be on him) was saved from the Cross is the one narrated in Matthew, chapter 26, verses 36 to 46, which relate that after getting information, through revelation, of his impending arrest, Jesus prayed to God all night, on his face, and in tears, and such prayer offered with such humility, and for which Jesus had ample time, could not go unaccepted; for the cry of an elect of God, addressed at a time of distress, is never turned down.

How was it then, that the prayer of Jesus which he had addressed all night with a painful heart and in a state of distress was rejected?

Jesus had said: The Father who is in heaven listens to me. Therefore, when his prayer addressed in such a state of distress was not heard, how can it be said that God heard his prayers?

The gospels also show that Jesus (peace be on him) was certain at heart that his prayer had been accepted; he had great confidence in that prayer.

That is why when he was arrested and put on the Cross, and when he found the circumstances not according to his expectations, he involuntarily cried ‘Eli, Eli lama sabachthani’, meaning, ‘My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me.’, i.e., he did not expect that it would come to this — that he would die on the Cross.

He believed that his prayer would be heard.

So, both these references to the gospel show that Jesus firmly believed that his prayer would be heard and accepted, that his tearful supplications addressed throughout the night would not be wasted, whereas he had himself taught his disciples, on divine authority: When you pray, the prayer will be accepted.

Further, he had also narrated the parable of the judge who feared neither man nor God. The purpose of this parable was that the disciples should realise that God undoubtedly answered prayers. Although Jesus knew from God that there was a great affliction in store for him, yet, like all righteous persons, he prayed to God, believing that there was nothing impossible for God and that God determined whether any events would happen or not.

Therefore, the rejection of Jesus’ own prayer would have shaken the faith of the disciples. Was it possible to place before the disciples an example destructive of their faith?

If they had seen with their own eyes that the prayer of a great prophet like Jesus, addressed all night with burning passion, was not accepted, the unfortunate example would have been very trying for their faith.

Therefore, the Merciful God could not but have accepted this prayer. It is certain the prayer offered at Gethsemane was accepted.

It is very clear from the above that Jesus did pray to God to save his life. God heard his prayers, accepted them and saved him a cursed death on a Cross, that proveds that Jesus was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH and was not a false one.

The Christian stance proves him otherwise.

I love Jesus, Mary and Moses as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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