Archive for the ‘cunning and sinful Paul’ Category

“How old was Jesus Christ when he died?”

February 11, 2010

Paarsurrey edits/revises the answer.
Courtesy: wiki.answers.com

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_old_was_Jesus_Christ_when_he_died&action=edit

We do not know for sure the exact age of Jesus when He was crucified, but He was probably 33 years old.

Here is the argument. Jesus was baptized which means he was not a “Christian”. But the reason He was baptized was to “fulfill all righteousness,” (Matt. 3:15); Jesus never mentioned that reason, Matthew was not innocent, so could be wrong.

He had to fulfill the legal requirements for entering into the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4; Heb. 5:8-10; 6:20); that would have made Jesus a Jew; not a “Christian god”.

Priests offered sacrifice to God on behalf of the people. Jesus became a sacrifice for our sin (1 Pet. 2:24; 2 Cor. 5:21); if we would have sinned ; what our sins had to do with Jesus’ sacrifice or to any priest.

To be consecrated as a priest, Jesus had to be: 1) washed with water – baptism – (Lev. 8:6; Exodus 29:4, Matt. 3:16). 2) Anointed with oil – the Holy Spirit – (Lev. 8:12; Exodus 29:7; Matt. 3:16).

Jesus was a Christian god; if he was innocent he need do any such thing. Additionally, He may have needed to be 30 years old, Num. 4:3, “from thirty years and upward, even to fifty years old, all who enter the service to do the work in the tent of meeting.” Therefore we can conclude that Jesus began His earthly ministry at the age of 30. Since it went on for 3 1/2 years before Jesus was crucified, it is safe to say that He was 33 at the time of His death Jesus (the man) was crucified at the age of 33.

Jesus was though put on Cross, yet he was delivered in near-dead position.

• I’d say he was 24 at best.

• There are some Muslim traditions which say Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India, at the age of 120/125 years.

• Scholars estimate he was born 2-7 BCE and died 26-36 BCE. The Scholar are human beings; they should revise their estimates.
• Keep in mind, 2,000 years ago the average life-expectancy was less than 20; even then people could live well beyond an old age.

he was not 33 years old they don’t know exactly what was the age and it don’t say that in the bible

Since the Bible is specific about time, Christ would have been 33 1/2 years old when He was crucified, or 33 yrs., 6 mos.

Bible is not a sound source of history. The scriptures tell us that He died on Passover, so by using simple math, we can count BACKWARDS 6 mos. from Passover (roughly the middle of March) and determine His date of birth also, roughly the middle of September…Well, the scriptures could be wrong, the are supposed to be written by faulty human beings.

This last entry is pretty accurate; but remember: he also had an earthly existence for some 33 & a half years and also a heavenly preexistence before he came to live as a man on earth, and starting out life as a human baby. He is referred to in the Holy Scriptures as: “the first born of creation, and the son of God.”It is wrong to say Jesus was first born; physically. All things were created through him after he came to be. “I came to be a master worker along side my Father…..” Given that understanding, Jesus would have to be many millions of years, and probably billions of years old. No wonder he was so wise!

Meditating on these facts as we know them from the bible will help us understand the meaning of him being a mighty god, but not almighty God; god Jesus never was and he never claimed to be as such literally.

He is the son of God, an actual direct creation of God; Jesus was not a son of God; also, this is only possible if Mary was a wife of God; since that was not the case; Jesus could not be son of God literally. Therefore he is not God. He is the image of God, figuratively yes, as we would say a son is the image of his father. Yet a son is not in reality the father. Therefore the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit are one in purpose, but not three parts of one entity.

We don’t have to use this terminology cooked by Paul; it is a faulty terminology The Father, or God, the Creator, was most commonly known by the name of Jehovah. Some refer to him from the Hebrew as YHWH, and think it is wrong to utter God’s name aloud. What is wrong is ‘to utter God’s name in vain.’ We are to say His name with reverence and deep respect. Jesus model prayer referred to or known as ‘the Lord’s prayer’ says: “Let your name be sanctified,” or “Hallowed be thy name.”

I have made some changes; for more accuracy the editors should read the book “Jesus in India” by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_old_was_Jesus_Christ_when_he_died&action=edit

I thank wiki.answers, for giving an opportunity to me to revise the article.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

In the name of justice and love; Christianity presents a very cruel God and concept of atonement of sins, which is neither practical and rational, nor natural and logical

June 12, 2009

Marianne says:

The apostles were not dull witted. Jesus spent 3 years training them and they were very smart and prepared to do their job.

To say they were somehow stupid is an insult to their teacher Jesus.

Paarsurrey says: But this is what the Bible presents them to be.

Marianne says:

They believed in the resurrection of Lazarus, because they were there when it happened.

Paarsurrey says:

Had they believed that Jesus had given life to a physically dead Lazarus; then they would have not deserted Jesus on the Cross’ they just ran away; actions speak more than the words sometimes.

Marianne says:

Jesus died on the cross, and then he rose from the dead.

Paarsurrey says:

If Jesus was physically dead, then his friends would have not been in hurry to take him to the tomb. They believed that Jesus was near-dead, hence they hurriedly took him to the tomb for treatment.

If they had believed that he must be physically and literally dead and was to be alive from the dead, they would have kept him in the open; at least for the Jews to see Jesus perform the miracle. That never happened; and they did not expect it. They knew that Jesus was not physically dead.

Marianne says:

HE never went to India. This is a fairy tale of unbelievers.

Paarsurrey says:

The scribes did not write the gospel books to record the facts for the public. They wrote it for a specific purpose to support Paul’s weird theological philosophy.

They did not mention accounts of Jesus’ earlier life; they had no interest in it.They did not have interest in what Jesus did after he went from Galilee. Jesus seeing their poor belief; secretly went to India.

Marianne says:

Unless you accept the atonement death of Jesus on the cross, and his resurrection from the dead, your faith is wrong, and your relationship with Jesus is = 0 (zero), meaningless.

Paarsurrey says:

There is no direct relationship between sins and Jesus’ supposed death on the Cross; which never happened. Sins are forgiven from the time of Adam to today under a separate process; whether Jesus died on the Cross or did not die on the Cross.My relationship with Jesus is meaningful; I believe in the same God Allah YHWH whom Jesus also believed.

Marianne says:

Jesus came to die for our sins. If you reject this, then you reject him.

Paarsurrey says:

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. Jesus came with a message from God Allah YHWH; that is why he was a Messenger and Prophet. Sins are forgiven by God Allah YHWH. Jesus has no authority to forgive sins; it is sole discretion of God Allah YHWH; this should be clearly understood.

If a passerby in the street committs a sin; you won’t kill your son for the atonement of the passerby’s sins. It will be a most cruel thing to do.

In the name of justice and love; Christianity presents a very cruel concept of God and atonement of sins, which is neither practical and rational nor natural and logical.

I respect your faith; but this is what I sincerely belive and with logical reasons.

You are welcome to express your faith; no compulsion; but it should not be blindfaith, it should be a reason oriented faith supported by reasons and logical arguments. Blindfaith is no faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Neither God Allah YHWH of Old Testament had a plan for Saul/Paul nor Jesus; there is no mention of Paul in the four gospels

June 10, 2009

Michelle says:

I have a difficult time with your belief about Jesus never appointed Paul. Before Paul became a believer in Christ, his name was Saul and he was on a destructive path of killing the Christians. But on the road to damacus, Jesus shined his light on him and changed the course of history for Saul who became Paul. The Bible says in Acts 9:15 – Lord is speaking to Ananias about Saul, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel.” The Bible teaches that Jesus is Lord. So when the Lord was speaking to Ananias, you can also imply that Jesus (being Lord) was the one speaking to Ananias.
God had a plan for Saul who later became Paul.

Paarsurrey says:

So, in a way you agree with me that God Allah YHWH did not appoint Paul as His Apostel/Epistel/Messenger.

God Allah YHWH did not have a plan for Saul/Paul; if He had a plan then He would have mentioned it in the Old Tesatament about it. We don’t find any mention like that there.

If Jesus would have got a plan for Saul or Paul; then he would have mentioned it to the tewlve before the event of Crucifixion; and this also would have been recorded in the four gospel books.

It is evident that neither God Allah YHWH had a plan for Saul/ Paul; nor Jesus had any plan.

The vision which Paul says he he saw on the road to Damuscus; is therefore his own cunning and intriguing plan; having nothing to do with Jesus.

Jesus was at that time heading towards India.

I think you would now agree with me.

I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The deserting and sinful scribes of Bible fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda; which was different from Jesus’ in teachings as well as in Acts

June 9, 2009

Edbooked says:

Consider this…Dying with Jesus would have been easier than carrying on the work Jesus began while being pursued under threat of death throughout the lands. Why repeatedly risk death? Such acts require courage. Dying is easy. Doing one’s duty…completing one’s mission…in spite of the threat of enemy death…takes courage some suggest requires divine assistance.

Paarsurrey says:

Sorry, I don’t agree with you on this.

The scribes witnessed without being present on the scene of crucifixion; they did things not with the permission of their master Jesus; so it is weird to say they were couragious.

They never carried out the work of Jesus; they fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda, which was different from Jesus in teachings as well as in Acts. Jesus was at that time in India; and was unaware of their wrong doings at Rome.

I respect you opinion and faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Mulsim

Not only that Jesus did not appoint Paul as his successor; he never even mentioned to the twelve that Paul, who was hitherto an enemy of Jesus, would someday convert and become his successor/epistle/Apostle in future

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

I’m also mainly in agreement with the Rev. There is way too much imbeded testimony in the Old Testament about Christ, plus confimation in the New Testament and Book of Mormon with it’s powerful witnesses and the witness of the Holy Ghost.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

I think I cannot buy that and also Rev. won’t agree with you that Book of Mormon had anything to do with Jesus.

I can understand that Jesus was unders persecution from the Jews; who were after him to kill him on the Cross to prove that he was not truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH; nevetheless Jesus was an upright man. I don’t think that it is a tenable excuse and it favours Jesus that he did not mention for forgot to mention in the Old Testament of his coming by name; and only left clues that Jews never accepted.

One can search the Old Testaments with a powerful microscope but one would fail to find Jesus’ name in the Old Testament.

What was Jesus, god of Bible afraid of by not mentioning his name clearly? Were there Jews in the heaven to persecute him and kill him there?

I take it as a wishful thinking of the Christians to find Jesus of Bible, a god, in the Old Testament.

As far as the appointment of Messengers/ Prophets/ is concerned; as explained earlier it is the sole discretion of God Allah YHWH; and it was not in place for Paul and Joseph Smith.

Even Jesus did not appoint Paul; he never mentioned to the twelve that after crucifixion; Paul, who was hitherto an enemy of Jesus, would convert and become his successor/epitle/Apostel.

The Christians should side with Jesus instead of siding with Paul and Joseph Smith.

I quote here from Bible as to how Moses met with God Allah YHWH and the dialogue that took place :

2 And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt. 3 And Moses said: I will go and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he went forward to see, he called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said: Moses, Moses. And he answered: Here I am. 5 And he said: Come not nigh hither, put off the shoes from thy feet: for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.6 And he said: I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Exodus 3:2-6

http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=2&ch=3&l=11&f=s#x

The personage clearly tells his antecedents and gives signs to Moses; and Moses asks very pertinent questions and is answered by God Allah YHWH.

Moese was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH and died a natural death.

There is no such clarity in the visions of Paul and Joseph Smith; their visions are foggy and without any clarity; they were self appointed and hence were killed in terms of Deuteronomy.

I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Anyone please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found

June 7, 2009

Edbooked says:

Who, other than Christianity, would describe the one God worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as three persons? Yet that is how the biblical writers perceived God to be revealed to humanity. They perceived the one
God; being revealed as creator Father, as obedient son even unto death and as consoling Holy Spirit and counselor.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend edbooked

The Jews and Muslims don’t believe Jesus as god or the Holy Spirit as god. Please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found believing such thing. Even Jesus did not believe like that.

This game started with Paul; when Jesus secretly moved away from Galilee to India, after have esacpaed a cursed deatho on Cross; Paul thought it an opportune time to bring superflous ideas to mar the simple teachings of Jesus who always followed in the line of Moses.

The deserting sinful scribes of gospels also followed Paul.

I am sorry to state; that the prsent Christians though call themselves after the Christ; yet they are followers of Paul, and not of Jesus.

What is your denomination/faith? This is only requested for clarity in perceiving you standpoint; no compulsion however. Please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

When Jesus did not read from the Bible which the Catholics Protestants now read from; then what credence it does have? I think none

June 3, 2009

Mightbethewalrus says:

I think that some of the letters were left out because they were written too long after Jesus was on earth. The Catholic bible has a few more books. I think it would be interesting to read some of them.

paarsurrey says:

Hi friend mightbethewalrus

Welcome to this blog.

May God bless you!

My question is; when Jesus did not read from the Bible which the Catholics Protestants now read from; what credence it does have? I think none.

It is not the question of some letters which were left out; it is of the entire New Testament.

Why did the sinful scribes did not write their gospels before the incident of the Cross; so that Jesus could have read it approved it?

I respect your faith; please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Paul eulogized Jesus; only to deprive Jesus from his true personage

May 29, 2009

Mark Anderson says:

This attachment is a study of Paul I did myself about 10 years ago. I was asking if he was a true follower of Jesus. For someone to be an apostle, which means like an ambassador or representative, they must reflect the character of the one who sends. It is maybe too long for your interest. But you might look at the first 3 pages.
Mark

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Mark Anderson

Thanks for sending me your research article on Paul and suggesting to me to read it.

Jesus was a straightforward man like Moses or Jonah or Noah. They conveyed the Message they received from God Allah YHWH to the people they were sent to.

Jesus was one like them; though he might have used some parables to explain things; without any intention of complicating the things or putting people in confusion.

I just want that people should know the real Jesus. If I see that the basic character of Jesus as mentioned by me above and his psyche is being undermined; and he is being overshadowed by somebody cleverly, like Paul did; only to that extent I will expose such person.

I have no interest or intention to start Paul bashing or the scribes of the gospels; I only want that the real Jesus should shine out.

Paul eulogized Jesus; only to deprive Jesus from his true personage. Jesus is a real entity to me; Paul and scribes are no entity to me.

Sorry, I don’t agree that Paul was Jesus like or an attorney or a representative or an ambassador of Jesus.

That does not mean that you should unnecessarily believe what I believe; there is no compulsion in matters of faith or religion. Peace; I respect your faith. Please don’t mind.

I love Jesus as I do love Moses, Noah and Jonah.

Thanks and regards to you, your family and your friends. May God bless you all!

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Friend jasgang says to paarsurrey “you are not willing to look any further than your nose”

May 17, 2009

Jasgang says:

God is not God by any name. The Quran is the only place that you will find your god, because you are not willing to look any further than your nose, or your god. There is a God so much greater than your god. Our God doesn’t hate anyone, even those who turn away from Him. The Bible says that nothing shall separate us from the love of God. You can choose your own god, but in choosing the wrong god, you will be damned, not rewarded with 72 virgins, but God will still love you. I don’t understand the spirituality of the 72 virgins thing, we have had our desires in this life, to multiply and replenish the earth, in heaven there will be no more sex or need for replenishing, the kingdom will be complete with those who were obedient to the end. Those who loved God with all their heart, mind, soul, and body. If your desire is to learn the truth I am willing to confer with you. However, I have no interest in the Quran or the Muslim faith.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend jasgang

May be you are right to say to me “you are not willing to look any further than your nose”. How correct you are?

It is only for this that we are discussing things in this blog; to benefit from one another’s experience. I will be thankful if you help me to see beyond my nose.

Perhaps, I use spectacles to see far away from my nose. It is a bifocal lenses and I can see things quite normally. Maybe you happen to be an eye specialist; but I think you told me that you are a priest. Didn’t you?

Please don’t mind if I help you to see beyond the myths; right into the reality. I think it would be OK for me if you believe in the real Jesus; not the unreal one Paul saw in a made up fairy tale.

What is this 72 virgins thing, you referred to?

If you think it is mentioned in Quran; please quote the verse from Quran; its text and the usual context which consist on five preceding and five following verses.

Quran is the spectacles with which you could see beyond the horizons of time and space; please don’t feel shy to look beyond your nose; I won’t mind, my friend.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke) simply played with the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament

May 10, 2009

Jesus of Bible is Jesus made from wax molded at whims of the Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke)

Michelle says:

The statement of Scripture the average Jewish young man or woman was brought up on was Deut.6:4: “Hear O Israel! The LORD our God, the LORD is One”. It is in the light of this overwhelming assertion of Jewish monotheism that a claim to divinity by any Jew is to be viewed. What an astonishment it must have caused in the minds of His audience when this Jew Who came 1500 years after Moses claimed (even if indirectly) that He was of the same essence as Jehovah! Jesus, however, delighted more in calling Himself as ‘the Son of Man’ although it is John who, more than the other evangelists dared to call Him ‘the Son of God’. To be sure, the title ‘Son of Man’ carried with it the overtones of divinity although distinct from God as seen Dan. 7:13, 14. Jesus emphasized His humanity (by the use of this title) as that was more descriptive of the work He had come to complete. But we need to recognize that His work also necessitated His being God. If He had been only human, even
His human functions could not have had such eternal implications.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend michelle, miss of bombay

I think your writeup is long; please don’t mind, I would be replying it in portions.

I respect your faith.

I have to submit with all humility that to me, Jesus of Bible seems to be a helpless person in the hands of the confused and sinful evangelists. I think they carved their own Jesus from wax; they molded Jesus the way they liked and which served their own ends; having little care for Jesus or Jesus’ teachings or teachings of the Old Testament of which Jesus was a strict follower. Either they were men of poor understanding or they simply played with the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament. Once they deserted Jesus physically as they fled away from the scene of Crucifixion; now they seem set to take revenge from Jesus’ teachings and his acts.

They were not decided about Jesus as to what he was; they were constantly in confusion, sometimes they described him Son of Man or Son of Adam, at other times they would describe him Son of God, yet another time they would say he was god. They would say he was born of Mary and hence Son of Mary; yet he was in the beginning and became flesh; and became his own father or husband of Mary. I don’t mind that; it is their insinuation or confusion; they had a right if they wanted to remain in a state of confusion.

One wonders, if they were real disciples of Jesus; as they want us to believe that Jesus was going to die only for three days and then he was going to become a living god. What need they had to run away. Were they hidden unbelievers? If they thought that Jesus was their god; what fear they should have had from the Jews or the Romans? What maximum would have happened to them in three days? At the most the Jews or the Romans would have killed them. Jesus becoming alive after three days; if he ever cared for the disciples of Bible, must have not only made them alive from the dead but must have rewarded them suitably also; like they had seen Jesus performing the miracle of making Lazarus alive from the dead, if it ever worked as per Bible.

I think they, the Evangelists doubted and never believed that Jesus had performed any such miracle or that he was going to perform now his biggest miracle of becoming himself alive from the dead.

I see the Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke) standing in line with the Jews and not believing that Jesus showed any miracle.

Jesus of Bible admitted that the Jews won’t be shown any miracle except the sign of Jonah, if the Jews denied or Jesus did not show any miracle previously, the Evangelists deny his last Sign.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming, rightly observes:

Quote
“I wonder what the Christians are so proud of! If they have a ‘God’, he is the one who died long ago and lies buried in Mohalla Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir. And if he has any miracles to his name, they are no greater than those of other Prophets, indeed Prophet Elijah showed greater miracles than he ever did. In the eyes of the Jews, Jesus (as) showed no miracles at all, and it was all deception and trickery.

This statement of the Jews is corroborated by Jesus (as) himself, for he says in the Gospels, “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it…” If Jesus (as) had shown miracles to the Jews, he would surely have referred to them on this occasion.”
Unquote

The sinful writers of the Gospels were not trusted disciples of Jesus; that is why Jesus left them behind and did not take them along, when he went to India along with Mary, after being saved from a cursed death on Cross by the grace and mercy of Allah. Jesus died a respectful and natural death in India, at the age of about 120 years.

This is only what we see Evangelists doing, their tricky things, in the daylight of reason and rationality.

Jesus was a great man a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH and so were his teachings; his mother Mary was a marvelous lady as per Quran.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran, not the mythical Jesus presented by the cunning and sinful Paul and the sinful scribes.

I respect your faith; you must be guided by your own conscience freely, this is what I believe sincerely without any intention of injuring anybody else’s feelings.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim


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