Archive for the ‘Crucifixion’ Category

“Lawmakers in France propose burka ban”

January 28, 2010

Jesus in the tomb: Catholics Protestants to count 3 days

January 23, 2010

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4725&p=91937#p91937

Nosubmission wrote:

More, Jesus said that the parallelism between Himself and Jonah was confined to the time of stay in a place: 3 days.

Paarsurrey says:

Now please enumerate period of 3 days, as you have mentioned. I am sure no Catholic or Protestant would ever be able to count these three days also.

Paarsurrey wrote after 3, 4 days, as no Catholic Protestant came forward to count the period of 3 days:

Hi friends

No Catholic or Protestant enumerates the period of 3 days; none a witness to it. This was not the essence of Sign of Jonah; the essence was not to die. Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; so must Jesus not die in the incident of putting him on the Cross. It is easy; the Catholics and Protestant should understand and come out of the hotch potch of Paul and the Church. Why make your religion/faith an absurdity before Atheists Agnostics for nothing?

Jesus was a wise Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; he and his mother never believed in such absurdities.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus was not a crazy man to claim divinty

January 22, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/#comments

Hi friend Aaron

You say “The punishment for blasphemy, according to Mosaic Law, was death (Leviticus 24:16”.

Let us see what is mentioned in the verses quoted by you.

Leviticus 24:10-20

10 And behold there went out the son of a woman of Israel, whom she had of an Egyptian, among the children of Israel, and fell at words in the camp with a man of Israel.
11 And when he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it, he was brought to Moses: (now his mother was called Salumith, the daughter of Dabri, of the tribe of Dan:) 12 And they put him into prison, till they might know what the Lord would command. 13 And the Lord spoke to Moses, 14 Saying: Bring forth the blasphemer without the camp, and let them that heard him, put their hands upon his head, and let all the people stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak to the children of Israel: the man that curseth his God, shall bear his sin:
16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die: all the multitude shall stone him, whether he be a native or a stranger. He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die. 17 He that striketh and killeth a man, dying let him die. 18 He that killeth a beast, shall make it good, that is to say, shall give beast for beast. 19 He that giveth a blemish to any of his neighbours: as he hath done, so shall it be done to him: 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, shall he restore. What blemish he gave, the like shall he be compelled to suffer.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/03024.htm

Now we look into the verses as mentioned by you.

1. Now the passage mentions the man “he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it”, it does not say with transparency that the man claimed to be God; he cursed God as is written there and that does not make one claimant of divinity, for sure.
2. So I don’t think that you have been able to quote any appropriate verse for punishment of a claimant of God from Moses.
3. Unless you mention such a verse; I don’t think that there was any punishments of claiming a god; as it is obviously a crazy claim for a human being; does not involve any punishment in this world as there is no ambiguity in it.
4. How could Jesus make such a crazy claim? And why should he when he was not a god; he did not die on Cross and like Moses who migrated from Egypt to Arabian Peninsula to save his life; so did Jesus, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position and later when he recovered from the injuries, secretly, he made good his escape to India; so like Moses he was only a Prophet of God.
5. If as you say (though it is totally incorrect) that Jesus claimed literal divinity; then the Jews should have insisted that Jesus be stoned in the public as per the Law of Moses; they preferred to hang him on the Cross, just to prove that he was a cursed man; and that Jesus was not, he was Chosen-One of God and His beloved.

Please find some transparent verses from Moses in the issue to strengthen your claim.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks and regards.

John never witnessed Jesus’ Crucifixion

January 16, 2010

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4657&p=90570#p90570
Quran, 4:157

Eagle wrote:

Your gospels are unambiguous to the fact ALL disciples fled when Jesus got arrested and Peter’s fear of arrest caused him to repeatedly deny that he even knew Jesus.

ThereIs1Adonai wrote:

John was that disciple and he is the one who leaned on Jesus’ chest at the last supper. He writes this of himself.

Eagle wrote:

There is absolutely no proof that the unnamed disciple mentioned by John’s Gospel’s writer (mentioned in the 3rd person by the way, why would John mention himself in the 3rd person?) in Jn19:25-27 is John the son of Zebedee. That traditional interpretation is still a matter of dispute among scholars. Also, the other gospels don’t mention a “disciple whom Jesus loved”. They also say nothing about any disciple or any women being near the cross, or talking with Jesus while he was on the cross, not to mention that execution sites were guarded by Romans and surely wouldn’t allow anyone near.
That unknown and unnamed disciple you are referring to could be the author of John’s Gospel as it seems from Jn21:24.

Skenderbeg wrote:

Can you Muslims tell me then who was supposed to write it down for us to know?

Eagle wrote:

Jesus had very little followers in his lifetime.

Can your bible scholars say for sure who wrote the gospels attributed to Mark, John, Luke, Matthew? as 4:157-8 says, Jesus’ enemies claimed to have killed him, others that they crucified him and this grew into a legend which crept into those books whose authorship is questioned by modern scholarship.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Very scholarly and truthful comments by Eagle; I agree with him.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Bible.

Thanks

Joseph Smith- inundated by his own thoughts; when he heard somebody say, here is my son, without recognition; he assumed that the speaker was God Allah YHWH and the son was Jesus

June 11, 2009

Paarsurrey says:

“Jesus escaped death on the Cross, he never got alive from the dead, he never ascended to heaven, rather Jesus migrated to India, and he died naturally and peacefuly at the age of about 120 years in India.”

Markparker1 says:

This is not taught in the Old testament, New testament or Book of Mormon or any other Christian scripture, it’s actually opposite to what they testify, the twelve Apostles were eye witnesses, to Christs ressurrection, so were a large group of people who’s testimonies are in the Book of Mormon, and finally Joseph and other LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses. On top of that the Apostles taught they were witnesses and so too were the Holy Ghost.

Paarsurrey says:

It is well known that the Gospels and other book of the Bible were written with a spcific purpose; not as a statement of facts.

Now; you say that “LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses”; one wonders as to what sort of eye-witnesses were they; of the event of crucifixion. I think it is just another confirmation that there were factually no witnesses of the event who had witnessed and wrote their testimony.

I think they won’t have the courage to stand on a witnesses stand and face the cross-examination, in a real court of Law.

The LDS, Joseph Smith did not have a converse with God Allah YHWH as one could understand clearly from his First Vision. He was confused and inundated by his own thoughts; when he heard somebody say here is my son without recognition; he assumed that the speaker was God Allah YHWH and the son was Jesus. Such a fragile witnessing!

I respect your faith; you have the right to believe anything you think fit for your believing, there is no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Anyone please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found

June 7, 2009

Edbooked says:

Who, other than Christianity, would describe the one God worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as three persons? Yet that is how the biblical writers perceived God to be revealed to humanity. They perceived the one
God; being revealed as creator Father, as obedient son even unto death and as consoling Holy Spirit and counselor.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend edbooked

The Jews and Muslims don’t believe Jesus as god or the Holy Spirit as god. Please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found believing such thing. Even Jesus did not believe like that.

This game started with Paul; when Jesus secretly moved away from Galilee to India, after have esacpaed a cursed deatho on Cross; Paul thought it an opportune time to bring superflous ideas to mar the simple teachings of Jesus who always followed in the line of Moses.

The deserting sinful scribes of gospels also followed Paul.

I am sorry to state; that the prsent Christians though call themselves after the Christ; yet they are followers of Paul, and not of Jesus.

What is your denomination/faith? This is only requested for clarity in perceiving you standpoint; no compulsion however. Please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus was not a cursed man, he was a blessed man all along his life from the day he was born of Mary to the day he was put on the Cross; until the day he died at the age of 120 years in India

May 28, 2009

Wellwateredgarden says:

Jesus took the ‘curse’ of human death upon Himself so that we (those who believe in Him) will live.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend wellwateredgarden

Sorry, I don’t agree with you that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross. What has the cursed to do with Jesus? He was a blessed man all along his life from the day he was born of Mary to the day he was put on the Cross to the day he died at the age of 120 years and he is buried in a tomb at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.

The present day Christians who only follow Paul’s theological philosophy invented at Rome of which Jesus was unawares as he was busy spreading his message in India; the Christians are spiritually dead.

Jesus had got light from God Allah YHWH; but Paul had none. Paul became blind physically when he crafted a vision of seeing Jesus; and spiritually he was already blind as he opposed Jesus and his friends. A blind man cannot show or guide a blind person except falling in a ditch with those who follow him.

Jesus could show the light if the Christians leave Paul aside and follow Jesus’ teachings and acts.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

wellwatredgarden hadcommented on my following post:

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/if-jesus-of-bible-did-not-show-his-greatest-miracle-promised-to-jews-all-his-previous-miracles-become-dubious-and-the-bible-too/#comments

Pilate’s wife’s dream indicated God’s design to save Jesus, and it could never be that God’s design should fail in its object and Jesus dies a cursed death on the Cross

May 24, 2009

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 , the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:

Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman’s noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided — in a day or two — to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him.

If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life. Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken.

On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews. According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day.

So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours.6 This sixth hour was after twelve o’clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished. Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses.

In addition to all this, there was another heavenly cause, namely, that when Pilate presided at his court, his wife sent word to him not to have anything to do with that righteous person (i.e., not to attempt to punish him with death), for, she said, she had had a dream that night, which had troubled her very much.7 So, this angel, whom the wife of Pilate saw in her dream, would assure us and all fair-minded people, with certainty, that God had never intended that Jesus should die on the Cross.

From the day of the creation of this world, never has it occurred that God should suggest to a person in a dream that a particular thing would happen in a certain way, and still that thing should fail to happen. For example, the gospel of Matthew says that an angel of the Lord came to Joseph in a dream and said, ‘Arise and take the young child and the mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him’.8 Now, can anyone say that Jesus could be killed in Egypt?

Similarly the dream which the wife of Pilate dreamt was a part of God’s design, and it could never be that this design should fail in its object; and just as the possibility of Jesus being put to death during the Egyptian journey was against a specific promise of God, so here it is unthinkable that the angel of Almighty God should appear to the wife of Pilate and should direct her to say that if Jesus died on the Cross it would not be a happy thing for her, and yet the angel’s appearance should go in vain, and Jesus should be allowed to suffer death on the Cross.

Is there any example of this in the world? None. The pure conscience of all good men, when informed of the dream of Pilate’s wife, will no doubt testify that it was a fact that the purpose of that dream was to lay the foundation for the rescue of Jesus. It is of course open to everybody to deny an out-and-out truth; out of prejudice born of his creed, he may refuse to accept it, but fairness would oblige us to believe that the dream of Pilate’s wife is a piece of weighty evidence in support of Jesus’ escape from the Cross.

The first in rank among the gospels, i.e., Matthew, has recorded this evidence. Although, therefore, the powerful evidence which I shall set out in this book invalidates the divinity of Jesus and the doctrine of Atonement, yet honesty and love of fairness require us not to be partial to a communal or customary creed on a question of fact. From the day of the creation of man up till to-day the limited intellect of man has invested a thousand things with Divinity and Godhead, so much so that even cats and snakes have been worshipped; nevertheless wise people, through heaven’s help, have continued to be saved from the evil of such polytheistic beliefs.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

Until the time when Jesus of Bible decided to commit suicide, we find an element of righteousness and godliness among the Christians; after the crucifixion their carnal passions burst forth like a river which breaks its banks and inundates the land

May 13, 2009

~Crucifixion served no purpose
~Jews, and all reasonable people, consider Jesus’ ascension to be no more than a fable

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1838-1908 says:

But we never observe in the Divine law of nature that ‘A’ hits his
own head with a stone and this cures the headache of ‘B’.
We are, therefore, at a loss to understand how people can
acquire inner purification through the suicide committed
by the Messiah. Is there any law or philosophy which can
make us understand how the Messiah’s blood could have
cleansed the inner impurities of other people?

Our observation
is, in fact, opposed to this principle, because, until
the time when the Messiah decided to commit suicide, we
find an element of righteousness and godliness among the
Christians. After the crucifixion, however, their carnal
passions burst forth like a river which breaks its banks
and inundates the land.

There is no doubt that even if this suicide on the part of the
Messiah was deliberate, it was quite needless. If he had,
instead, spent his life in preaching and exhortation, he
would have done a lot of good for God’s creation. But this
act did not serve them in any way. Yes, if the Messiah had
indeed come back to life after his suicide, and had ascended
to heaven before the very eyes of the Jews, they
would surely have believed in him. But, as things stand, the
Jews, and all reasonable people, consider the Messiah’s
ascension to be no more than a fable.

The doctrine of Trinity is also rather peculiar. Has anyone
ever heard of something being permanently and perfectly
‘three’ and ‘one’ at the same time? Or that one God should
be as perfect as three Gods? Christianity is indeed a
strange religion, which errs at every step.

And, not content with all this darkness, it has set a seal on
all future revelation. According to the Christian belief, it
is no longer possible to correct the errors contained in the
Gospels through fresh revelation, because they believe
Divine revelation to be a thing of the past. Everything
now comes to rest upon individual opinion which can
never be free from ignorance and darkness.

It is, in fact,
impossible to count the absurdities that are to be found in
the Gospels, like the deification of a humble man, proposing
the Messiah’s crucifixion as a penalty for sins
committed by others, banishing him to hell for three days,
and declaring him to be God while attributing weakness
and falsehood to him at the same time!

There are many
passages in the Gospels which prove that the Messiah —
God forbid—was guilty of falsehood. For example, he
promised a certain thief that he would break fast with him
in heaven that very day, but, in breach of his promise, he
went to hell and stayed there for three days. It is also written
in the Gospels that the devil took the Messiah from
place to place in order to tempt him. Is it not strange that
the Messiah, being ‘God’, was not immune to satanic
temptations, and that the devil had the cheek to tempt Him
at all!

This is quite a unique philosophy! If the devil had
indeed visited the Messiah, it would have provided him an
excellent opportunity to show him to the Jews, as they
were strongly opposed to his claim of Prophethood. The
sign of the true Messiah, which had been mentioned in the
Book of Malachi, was that the Prophet Elijah* would return
to the world before his coming, but since Prophet
Elijah did not return, the Jews have called Jesus a liar
and an impostor to this day. And the Christians are at a
loss to counter this argument of the Jews.

The Jews also say that the account of the devil calling
upon the Messiah is a sign of insanity, and that many insane
people experience such hallucinations and
nightmares. An English scholar has said that this visitation
of the devil means that the Messiah received satanic
revelations on three occasions, but remained unmoved by
them, and that in one of them he was urged to renounce
God and submit himself wholly to Satan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* In those days, the Jews were awaiting the second advent of the Prophet
Elijah and his descent from heaven, exactly as our simple-minded maulawis
these days are waiting for Jesus to descend from heaven. Jesus
interpreted the prophecy of Prophet Malachi differently, but the Jews do not
believe him to be a true Prophet to this day because Elijah never
descended from heaven. And they have met hell due to this belief. Today
Muslims are the victims of the same delusion, in complete imitation of the
Jews. This has nevertheless served to fulfil a prophecy of the Holy
Prophet , Muhammad (sa). [Author]

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Fountain-of-Christianity-20080505MN.pdf

If Jesus was a god and he knew he was going to get alive in a time of three days then his praying to his father (God Allah YHWH) was an absurdity

May 12, 2009

Michelle says:

But ultimately Jesus came to show us the way to live and to die on the cross for our sins so that we may have a relationship with Jesus, have a good life and go to heaven when we die.

Paarsurey says:

Hi friend michelle

I respect your faith and you have all the freedom to believe what you think is right. But sorry I don’t agree wit you that Jesus were willing to die on the Cross or that it were destined for him from His father (God Allah YHWH) to die on the Cross. If that had been the case Jesus won’t have prayed to his father (God Allah YHWH) so fervently and passionately.

If he was a god or going to become a god; he should have challenged the Jews to put him on the Cross to verify his godhead. Jesus should have announced that he was least worried if he was put the Cross, as nobody could kill him. But poor Jesus of Bible made no such claims.

If he knew that he was going to get alive in a time of three days then his praying was an absurd thing.
What need he had to pray and to whom? He prayed not only in the garden called Gethsemane but right on the Cross. His last words on the Cross are stated to be: About three o’clock, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Matthew 27:46.
God O’ God, why you have left me, is a proof that he did not want to die on the Cross.

Why was Jesus upset, if he was only going to get alive within three days? Did he fear that somebody would snatch his Kingdom of the Universe from him?

Jesus was not willing at all to die on the Cross; only the Church people have made the sheep believe this way, this is a story to suit their ends.

Please think rationally and logically. If Jesus was willing, then why there is so much hue and cry of cruelty of the Jews and the Romans who executed Jesus. It should be a matter of joy rather a matter of sorrow, and should be celebrated accordingly.

Why was Jesus, his mother Mary, and the disciples worried and in tension? Why the disciples fled away from the scene if they were sure that Jesus would get alive in three days? Why was Jesus hurriedly taken to a tomb? He should have been kept into the open if he was to get alive without the help of others.

Jesus’ case, as depicted by the Bible, was not of a god but more of a disappointed person who had lost even the last hope and whose will was completely broken.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran and not the mythical ones as presented by cunning and sinful Paul or the sinful scribes.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim