Archive for the ‘Bible’ Category

None of the NT-Bible is “god inspired”

May 2, 2019

Religious Forums

#215 paarsurrey, 

I understand, while I read Kitab-i-Iqan, that neither Bahaullah nor Shoghi Effendi nor their followers understood Pauline-Christianity in its true colors. One may like to read “Pagan-Christianity” to have its glimpses.
Pagan Christianity – Wikipedia
It has nothing to do with Jesus , Mary and teachings of Jesus. One may like to read what is written in Quran about Jesus and Mary, quite some chapters, no compulsion however.


“I believe”

#216 paarsurrey

I understand that mostly when one starts with these words,it is mostly a blind-faith, and that one is not going to change it even if most reasonable arguments and evidences are given. Right, please?


#217 paarsurrey

I agree with one.
One who dies does not return to this earthly life again and Jesus was not an exception to it.


“The claim that anything in the bible is “god inspired” is just an unfounded assertion.”

#658 paarsurrey

It will be as good to say that none of the NT-Bible is “god inspired”.


“I say that it is anonymous”

#659 paarsurrey

Not only you say that the four Gospels were anonymous documents but the Catholic-Encylopedia also affirms that these were anonymous documents. Right, please?
The names of the Gospels do not suggest that the the accounts written were written by these disciples, their names were just assigned to give them some credulity. Right, please?
None, emphasis none, of the Gospel writers was the eye-witness of Jesus Crucifixion. Right, please?


“The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles ( Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Euaggelion kata Markon , etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. ”
Gospel and Gospels – Encyclopedia Volume – Catholic Encyclopedia – Catholic Online

Status of Women in the Bible

November 29, 2017

“How the Bible Paints Women as Liars”

One may like to read the following:

“How the Bible Paints Women as Liars”




“What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?”

October 31, 2017

Thread: “Did Jesus and or John the Baptist believe in Trinity? ”

Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Islam

 Post 21: 

—— wrote:
How do you identify which parts were added later? What is your method?

paarsurrey wrote:

Some of them I give below:
1. Jesus was a Jew, he followed the teachings given by Moses so anything in the NT Bible that is against the teachings of Moses, is not from Jesus.
2. Jesus metioned things in the usage of Torah of Moses, so anything Jesus said is to be interpreted from the usage of Moses’ Torah.
3. YHVH’s on attribute is All-Wise, so anything against the normal or against the reason/wisdom or the common sense is not from YHVH whom Jesus believed and addressed as God-the-Father.
4. The most ancient Bibles reportedly didn’t have them but the later versions show them. The textual anaylasis of the Bible done by the scholars point them out.

And there are other points which I mentioned in the thread “What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?”, forum Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma . Right, please?



The method of purification of Bible suggested by me is reasonably inferred from the above Jesus’ core teachings.

1. “This is the first and greatest commandment” hence, I think, Jesus would be happy if it is used as touch stone of his teachings and those which contradict with it are dubious and must be discarded.
2. “All the Law”; here he means that his teachings are for revival of Moses’ law; those of his teachings that conform to it only that must be accepted the rest discarded. This adds further purity to # 1.
3. “And the Prophets”; if the teachings have been mentioned by the prophets that further would ensure correctness.
4. “Love your neighbor as yourself”; all teachings that your neighbors don’t understand being mythical, not accepted by common sense and unreasonable should not be accepted.

Quran also confirms this principle:

[3:8] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding. —

I think with this measure Judaism, Christianity and Islam; even other revealed religions (Buddhism, Hinduism and Zoroastrianism etc) come on to the same page.

hanks and regards


Paarsurrey wrote:

The aesthetics as well as the meaning are important.
Whatever the language of a book (here Quran) the meaning of a word is best understood in the verse/sentence it is used, and the true meaning of a sentence is best understood in the passage (some preceding and some following sentences of the verse in focus ), a passage could be best understood in its chapter, and so on a chapter is best understood in the whole book or Quran. Then there is a context of a place (space) and time, there could be many correct translations to a word (or say a verse/sentence/passage/chapter) if the context is not against it (rather approves and supports it). If somebody assumes a wrong meaning, the context could out-rightly reject it. When one tries to understand the things deeply then one has to resort to etymology of the words and etymology of a word brings forth a new realm of meaning, its history, culture etc.
Quran is pragmatic, it addressed the pagan Meccans, then the people around Christians, Jews , Zoroastrians and others; then the whole world at that time, in the past and also in future.
So it is deeper and deeper and deeper; language is not as important as are the meanings, and meaning of life and humanity.

Quran is best understood “with reference to the context” tool

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend paul8bee

You may start reading Quran. It is not a voluminous book. It might be a little larger than the four gospels combined.

It provides guidance on temporal, moral and spiritual matters. Quran does not want that it should be believed only as a book of authority from an authority. It provides the wisdom to a thing and reason and logical arguments, in a way, that it is not a tedious book like the books of philosophy which are full with difficult terminology not understood by the common man. It mentions wisdom for the Philosophers, experts and the common people all at one time; as it is guidance for everybody.

Even of I don’t quote from the Quran, I write taking wisdom from it which convinces others, as first I am myself convinced with it. If I sometimes mention that I have taken this reasoning from Quran; it is for the reason that it would morally be bad for me if I take something from a sources yet without acknowledging it. Can we ignore the rights of an author? No we cannot.

I think I should give here an example.
As I understand from your blog, you have made a lot of research on spirits, and I appreciate that.

Quran mentions following points in this connection:

1. Everything in the Universe has been created by the Creator God Allah YHWH; if that is correct then logically the spirits which are in this Universe, are created by Him. This is exactly mentioned in Quran, as I understand from it. If you differ with it, no compulsion; then give your reasoning on this point.

2. Creator God, by definition is the one who has created everything, yet He has been created by none; that make Him self-existing. I think you also agree with it; no compulsion.

3. God is only eternal; so logically the spirits are his creation, so the spirits could not be eternal. You may give reasoning if you differ with this; however no compulsion.

4. When partners meet, husband and wife, the creation of a child starts, till it reaches a form fit to receive life. God commands the spirit or soul into the fetus, so it is logical to believe that the spirit or soul grows and or evolves within the fetus. Yet, I acknowledge that I have taken all these points from the Quran. Quran mentions claims and reason.

5. I would like to submit here and one must note it that it is only Quran from amongst the Revealed Word, which provides us the text for a claim and also a pertinent reason thereof within the usual context which often consist on five preceding and five following verses, in my opinion.

6. This make Quran a Book of Systems or a book with wonders, which is sufficient in itself to testify that Quran is not authored by a man, impossible to do by a man, but by the Creator God Allah YHWH himself has authored it.

There is however no compulsion to believe in Quran, blindly. But it will also not be fair if we see a truthful system in it, yet we deny it. It would be just killing the truth, in my opinion.

This is what we experience in our everyday life also. There is no compulsion to believe that this world is physically working under a set of systems, which are only discovered by the scientists yet not created by them. If there would have been no physical systems, rather haphazardness; this Universe won’t work and the Scientists won’t be able to propound theories and discover Laws and making any inventions. They only would find a system or knowledge if it already exists but inherent in the things.

If the Scientists would deny such systems, within and without us, that would tantamount denying the Science and Knowledge and Truth altogether; yet there is no compulsion but only an acknowledgement of the Truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Human interpretation can twist the entire message


NT Bible consist of glimpses of Word of G-d only

June 30, 2015

<> Thread : A good heated discussion.

Please click the post # below to view,comment and join discussion on the topic.
Post #229

Paarsurrey wrote:

I agree with you. Jesus did not write NT Bible, he also did not dictate it to anybody, he also did not authorize anybody to write anything on his behalf.

Thuli likes this.

Jewish scriptures present a God that is dreadful

June 2, 2014

Originally Posted by Robert.Evans
That does not make it wrong though, even if that might sound incorrect. it is the finished product that counts, though I take your point

Paarsurrey answers:

The Jewish scriptures present a God that is dreadful and hankers after the sins of the humans only to punish them.
That is because when OT Bible was committed to writing, the scribes at that time were narrow minded people so the OT Bible reflected more of their character than the truthful and merciful attributes of the One-True-God.

NT Bible only depicted the mythical cruel God invented by Paul who preferred to kill his own son for the imaginary sins of the human beings.

So the OT and the NT have mixed up things. Some or a large number of them are definitely corruptions done and highlighted out of proportions by the sinful scribes for their own nefarious motives.


Originally Posted by CMike
Then obviously you have no clue regarding Jewish scriptures.Unquote

Paarsurrey answers:

“The Jewish scriptures present a God that is dreadful and hankers after the sins of the humans only to punish them.

That is because when OT Bible was committed to writing, the scribes at that time were narrow minded people so the OT Bible reflected more of their character than the truthful and merciful attributes of the One-True-God.”

Please quote from Torah that my above observation is totally wrong.


Are Christians cut-off from the Tree of Life?

March 22, 2014

March 21st, 2014 at 7:40 pm

@john zande :March 21st, 2014 at 6:27 am
“Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”Unquote

I want to share an incident with friends here.

Quite sometimes ago two JWs persons came to my house and told me that there had been no change in the Bible, it is impossible and opened before me the above two passage of Revelation 22:18-19 from the Urdu Protestant Bible (later I came to know that JWs don’t had their own Urdu JW’s Bible at that time, and hence they preferred to follow Protestant Version and not the Catholic Version).

Incidentally I had a Catholic Urdu Bible with me which I was studying very intently, and I was much impressed by its contents.

I brought that and put that on the table. I said let us check both the versions, I did not know as to what the result would be. So we started checking the list of books given in the beginning.

We came to know that there were some six books in the Catholic Urdu OT Bible which were not to be found in the Protestant Bible.

They (the JWs) became pale and upset and went away.

So the addition or diminution of the books; and besides that many passage/verses and chapters missing or adding suggest, please don’t mind, that perhaps both the Protestants and Catholics have been cut off from the tree of life in terms of the above verses of Revelation 22:18-19.

What is the remedy?
Can both the mainstream Christian denominations agree to a version which should be acceptable to both of them and the JWs?


Christians! Please reply to the Atheists for “1214 Cruel and violent passages in Bible”

March 5, 2014

Please view Paarsurrey’s comments on the following blog for your valuable opinion:
“Dwindling In Unbelief”
“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”

paarsurrey Says: March 5, 2014 at 8:33 pm | Reply edit
@bobbierileyjr: March 4, 2014 at 12:39 am |

“Such methods stand in stark contrast to the teachings of Jesus to win men and women for the Kingdom of God by proclaiming the Good News of God’s saving grace through the atoning sacrifice of Christ.” Unquote

I think you did not notice perhaps; the blog to which I had given response is owned by the atheists by the name “Dwindling In Unbelief” and the topic is “Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”; link below:

If you think that there is no violence in Bible; then be pleased to respond to them directly and prove to them. The Atheists assert that there are 1214 Cruel or Violent Passages in the Bible.

Please feel free to prove to them directly that there are no cruel or violent passages/verses in the Bible.
Thanks and regards.

The research of Archaeologists Ze’ev Herzog and Finkelstein

July 29, 2013

I quote from Wikipedia.

“The Bible and archaeology

Main articles: The Bible and history and Biblical archaeology

According to one of the world’s leading biblical archaeologists, William G. Dever,

“Archaeology certainly doesn’t prove literal readings of the Bible…It calls them into question, and that’s what bothers some people. Most people really think that archaeology is out there to prove the Bible. No archaeologist thinks so.”[34] From the beginnings of what we call biblical archeology, perhaps 150 years ago, scholars, mostly western scholars, have attempted to use archeological data to prove the Bible. And for a long time it was thought to work. William Albright, the great father of our discipline, often spoke of the “archeological revolution.” Well, the revolution has come but not in the way that Albright thought. The truth of the matter today is that archeology raises more questions about the historicity of the Hebrew Bible and even the New Testament than it provides answers, and that’s very disturbing to some people.[35]

Dever also wrote:

Archaeology as it is practiced today must be able to challenge, as well as confirm, the Bible stories. Some things described there really did happen, but others did not. The biblical narratives about AbrahamMosesJoshua and Solomon probably reflect some historical memories of people and places, but the ‘larger than life’ portraits of the Bible are unrealistic and contradicted by the archaeological evidence….[36] I am not reading the Bible as Scripture… I am in fact not even a theist. My view all along—and especially in the recent books—is first that the biblical narratives are indeed ‘stories,’ often fictional and almost always propagandistic, but that here and there they contain some valid historical information…[37]

Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze’ev Herzog wrote in the Haaretz newspaper:

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.[38][39]

Professor Finkelstein, who is known as “the father of biblical archaeology”, told the Jerusalem Post that Jewish archaeologists have found no historical or archaeological evidence to back the biblical narrative on the Exodus, the Jews’ wandering in Sinai or Joshua’s conquest of Canaan. On the alleged Temple of Solomon, Finkelstein said that there is no archaeological evidence to prove it really existed.[40] Professor Yoni Mizrahi, an independent archaeologist who has worked with the International Atomic Energy Agency, agreed with Israel Finkelstein.[40]

Regarding the Exodus of Israelites from Egypt, Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass said:

“Really, it’s a myth,”… “This is my career as an archaeologist. I should tell them the truth. If the people are upset, that is not my problem.”[41]

Paarsurrey says:

I have gone through the above; these observations of the Archaeologists are about the narratives of the Bible. Quran never supported the Jews about the authorship of Bible. We always maintained that Bible is not authored by the one true God or by Moses; it is written by sinful scribes who at time exaggerated things and at other times they were fictional and added things or removed them.

Quran does not mention the cities and places which were under study of the Archaeologists. Quran categorically mentions that Jews tampered with the Bible to the extent that new Word of Revelation was essential, hence the advent of truthful Muhammad.

This study rather adds to the faith of Muslims that Quran is authored by the one true God; and its narratives don’t belong to Bible.


God standing on the rock Horeb: understanding Exodus 17:6 OT Bible

June 24, 2013

I wrote following posts on <> under the topic <God spoke “Behold I will stand there before thee, upon the rock Horeb”>; the posts are given below for the viewers of this blog.

(To see the context of a post, please, click the post #; that will take you to the full single view of the post in the forum, and then click the thread topic on the right upper corner, that will take you to the discussion that ensued in the forum.)

Paarsurrey wrote:

#25 #24 #22 #20 #16  #14   #12     #9 #8   #5  #4 #1

#1  Judaism are monotheists, as I understand, and the Christians also claim that they believe in one God, despite their belief in Trinity. Hinduism more so the Santana Dharma or the believers in the Eternal Law are also monotheists, as I understand; so are Zoroastrians and Buddha, as I get it.
How should we perceive Exodus 17:6?

[6] Behold I will stand there before thee, upon the rock Horeb: – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Book Of Exodus Chapter 17

God is not a physical being; what is meant by God standing upon the rock Horeb?


#5  I have now made some corrections; is it OK now? Please


#8To me; it is essential; all revealed religion are from one source of one true God; whatever the name in the language of the people it originated in. Like Levite has explained; others could also explain it and see their religion in the same light; that makes unity in understanding, in my opinion.

#9 Thanks for explaining for me.

How would you explain Moses parting the sea in two columns with his staff and making way for the Israelites?
(Exodus 14:21-22).

#12  Thanks for your answer.

What is your stance on the following, please?

1. The water of the river became blood. EXODUS 7:17.
2. Moses smites all the borders of Egypt with frogs. EXODUS 8:2.
3. Moses smites the dust of the earth and became lice. EXODUS 8:17.
4. Moses sends a grievous mourner upon the cattle, the Egyptians cattle died but the Israelite did not. EXODUS 9:3. EXODUS 9:6 to 7.
5. Moses smites the Egyptians by the dust of the furnace. EXODUS 9:8.
6. Moses sends rain of hail. EXODUS 9:18.
7. Moses sends the locusts over Egypt. EXODUS 10:14.
8. Moses sends the darkness in all the land of Egypt for 3 days. EXODUS 10:22.
9. GOD said, every first born in the land of Egypt from Pharaoh to the first born of the maidservant, And all first born of the beast. EXODUS 12:29.

#16   Please elaborate the last sentence.



Originally Posted by Shermana

And how is the idea of His presence particularly dwelling in the Tabernacle and Temple understood? What is this “Thickening” exactly? Does it imply a greater material manifestation? Can it possibly imply being seen in an actual bodily form?

Paarsurrey said:

It is making God a physical being, in my opinion.


Originally Posted by Shermana

I think so too.

I believe the ancient understanding was in fact that God had a body and could manifest directly in Physical form, that the “likeness” man is made in was 100% literal physical likeness, and the language describing his being and body were in fact literal, and only much later on in Rabbinical thought did this change.

This “Thickening” that Levite speaks of I agree with to a certain point, that it’s about materializing in a physical form even though his being permeats the entire world through his spirit.

Paarsurrey said:

This “thickening” is through an angel; not all by Himself ;one true God has no spirit; all spirits are His creation; He is everywhere with his attributes not with body or spirit.

#24The one true God is attributive; He converses with the human beings through Word revealed, visions and dreams; it is narrators and the scribes mishandling the phenomenon. There is no “thickening” of the one true God, in my opinion.

#25 One could find truth behind the story tellers, erring narrators and the wrong doing scribes, in my opinion.


“If the bible is the word of God” | akin to finding jewels in the rubble

May 5, 2013

Hank Kimball says:


(While commenting on one of my posts <>.)

“If the bible is the word of God, it is unrighteous and dishonest to use any other book to interpret it.”

 Paarsurrey says:

It should be a very big “if”.

Bible is a mess; finding Word of God in it is akin to finding jewels in the rubble; though not impossible.

NT Bible is errant; written by errant scribes. It is neither authored by the one true Creator God whom Jesus used to call God-the-Father nor by Jesus himself. It is not even dictated by Jesus; not even written by men authorized in writing by Jesus to write it on his behalf.

Gospels are not work of inspiration either; angels cannot inspire such incorrect information as we find many contradictory accounts of Jesus’ life in the Bible.

It is wrong to say that it was written by person who got inspired by the holy spirit. The holy spirit does not inspire to errant and sinful persons. The contradictions show, if at all, it is the evil spirit in them which inspired them.

Gospels did not record event of crucifixion and resurrection by the eye-witnesses; it is written that they all deserted Jesus and fled away.

Jesus did not belong to the physical lineage of King David as written by errant Matthew and errant Luke.

Bible presents Jesus as god; on what basis?

If it is on the basis of Paul or Gospels; that makes it a circular argument and Christianity reduces to a misnomer; it should be named after Paul.

The reasons or arguments should be from elsewhere; from a book or Gospel written by Jesus himself or dictated by Jesus, if it is to be truly called Christianity.

Jesus never, ever, appointed any attorney to write for him. So what the sinful disciples wrote, it had got nothing to do with Jesus or his teachings.

When Paul doctored the anonymous writing called gospels and named them after Jesus’ disciples to give some credulity to them; Jesus was at that time very much alive and was travelling towards India and the neighbouring countries; unaware of the misdeeds of Paul and the scribes in his absence.

Since we believe in Jesus and love him and his mother; we are willing to accept, whatever God Allah YHWH revealed Word from his mouth on the heart of Jesus; provided Jesus had himself written it, Jesus had dictated it verbatim in the original language revealed in.

Even if no Word was revealed on Jesus which he should have preserved for the Christian friends; but Jesus himself said something and wrote it himself or dictated it himself or authenticated it or authorized somebody before the event of Crucifixion to write for him; though that would be only at a Secondary Level, yet for our Christian friends we could consider that.

Has any Christian got anything like that? If so it is welcome to an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.

Other Christians are also welcome to join this discussion in search and understanding of Truth.

I believe that Jesus was a truthful person and existed historically only because his and his mother Mary’s accounts have been mentioned in Quran. Except for the Muslims, you know that no other religion believes that Jesus and Mary even existed in this world; I think one should appreciate it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.



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