Vedas are not eternal. Are they?

I had a discussion on my favorite discussion forum  <http://www.religiousforums.com/forums/religious-debates.15/&gt; , in the thread <Vedic Period, Pre-Vedic Period and Post-Vedic Period>.

Aug 26, 2016#53

shivsomashekhar said: 

Unlike the Quran, the Veda is accepted as eternal, without a beginning. So, the questions of language, location, time and authorship become irrelevant.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Does Veda claim it? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda
Regards

Aug 26, 2016#55

shivsomashekhar said: 

The Veda does not have a start date to it – nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.
You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Sorry, the claim and reason must be from the Veda itself, if it is a living Scripture, else it is already dead as happened to the Sanskrit language in which it is supposed to be originally. Please quote from the Veda/Yajurveda.

Regards

Aug 26, 2016#57

shivsomashekhar said: 

Nope. You do not understand how it works. You have to move past your simple world to understand epistemology and unauthoredness. Without doing that, you are trying to view Hinduism through your semitic lens and are just wasting your time.

Paarsurrey wrote:

I am told that Hinduism is not a religion, it is a conglomerate of many religions. My interest is in Veda/Yajurveda, not in Hinduism religions which are not even mentioned in Veda/Yajurveda. Does Veda/Yajurveda mention Hinduism? Please quote from Veda/Yajurveda if it mentions Hinduism. Kindly
Regards

Aug 27, 2016#59

shivsomashekhar said: 

The Veda does not have a start date to it – nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

paarsurrey said:

In that sense every inanimate thing has no start date or an end date inscribed/engraved on it. So what is the peculiarity of Veda, then? Please
Anybody, please
Regards

Aug 27, 2016#60

shivsomashekhar said: 

The Veda does not have a start date to it – nor an end date. Hence, it is eternal.

You will have to read up on Indian epistemology and the concept of apaurusheyatva (unauthoredness) to understand the concept. Without this, you are just wasting your time on this topic.

paarsurrey said:

One may like to read post#56 in another thread but very much related to this one. Please do read it as it proves that Veda/Yajurveda was never eternal. Right? Please
Regards

Aug 27, 2016#56

Aupmanyav said: 

This hymn is a combined effort of poets who belong to one genealogical line, the Vasishthas (except for the last two). Upamanyu’s father’s name is also included in the list (Vyaghrapada). Mrilika, from the same family, seems to have been a woman poet. But which verse was added by whom is not mentioned in the list. It is possible that the verses were written over a long period of time (even centuries) and not at the same time. There is no way of knowing what is not mentioned.

“Maitravaruni Vasishtha, Indrapramati Vasishtha, Vrishanag Vasishtha, Manyu Vasishtha, Upamanyu Vasishtha, Vyaghrapada Vasishtha, Sakti Vasishtha, Karnasruta Vasishtha, Mrilika Vasishtha, Shukra Vasishtha along with Parashara Shakta and Kutsa Angirasa.”

paarsurrey said:

So, you mean that Veda/Yajurveda is not at all “eternal” as is claimed here (in this forum but in another thread) , its contents have been continuously been added/increased, period after periods and now nobody knows exactly who wrote which verse, that speaks of its volume been increased from one Volume to several over time. Right? Please
Regards

Aug 27, 2016#59

Aupmanyav said: 

I suppose by this time you know that Hindus may have different views about things. As I have said in the last post that I do not believe that Vedas are ‘Word of God’ and there have been additions, and there are hymns which have been lost during the thousands of years. But then, I am a rare bird, an athiest. My views do not represent the whole of Hinduism. Most Hindus do accept Vedas as eternal and unchangeable, even through the periodic destruction and regeneration of the universe. No change whatsoever, no abrogations in like Quran, no change of God’s mind. Not that at one time, he wanted people to face Jerusalem during Salah and later directed people to face Mecca.

paarsurrey said:

Never-mind about Hinduism, they have grown only in the Post-Vedic period, no Hinduism existed in the Vedic-Period. Right,everybody!? Please
Regards

Aug 27, 2016#60

atanu said: 

Quran, which speaks of Allah, was revealed and written around 600Ce. Therefore, Allah, is not eternal. Yes. Thanks. Okay?

Veda, the Word (shabda -Om) is aupaurusheya (not of human origin). It pervades the three periods of time and is situated transcendentally as the very Brahman. It is revealed to sages, who too arepresentas our mind-senses.

paarsurrey said:

Vedas were never eternal which is evidenced from the additions and subtractions that have taken place in them and also from the portions that have lost. There was no promise from Brahman for their being secured and protected. Please read post#58above that will benefit one.
Further, the very first, HYMN 1:

2 Worthy is Agni to be praised by living as by ancient seers.
He shall bring hitherward the Gods.
http://www.sanskritweb.net/rigveda/griffith.pdf
There were seers in the Pre-Vedic period who had died and never compiled any Vedas for their progeny. The living ones all related to the Vedic-Period.
Veda/Rigveda/Yajurveda were never eternal. Right? Please
Was Agni ,mentioned above, a god of the Atheism people ? Please

Regard

Aug 28, 2016#63

Aupmanyav said:

You have been discussing Hinduism all along and now you say ‘never mind Hinduism’!Vedas are but a part of Hinduism.What otherwise have you been discussing? Post-Vedic means when the Vedas were canonized, after which no change has taken place. All changes, if any, happened in the Vedic period. Hinduism existed in India even before the time when Aryans came in. It is like the sea existed before the river water drained into it.

paarsurrey said:

One is simply wrong, Hinduism never existed in the Vedic-Period:

Hinduism (n.)
blanket term for “polytheism of India,” 1786, fromHindu+-ism.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hinduism

It is strictly speaking not even a name of any specific religion, just a blanket term, that is why even some Atheism people use it as a cover. Veda does not support Atheism or any of the people who take cover under this blanket. Please
Regards

paarsurrey said:

One is simply wrong, Hinduism never existed in the Vedic-Period:

Hinduism (n.)

blanket term for “polytheism of India,” 1786, fromHindu+-ism.http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hinduism

It is strictly speaking not even a name of any specific religion, just a blanket term, that is why even some Atheism people use it as a cover. Veda does not support Atheism or any of the people who take cover under this blanket. Please

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Anybody who lived in the basin of the river Sindh was described as such, it does not describe any religion but people of whatever religion living in the region would be described as such. The same is about India, it is from the river Indus another description of Sindh:

Athi S Sundar, Greek/Sanskrit Etymology,with reference to Tamil is my area of special interest.

Stephen Knapp says ” We must remember that the term “hindu” is not even Sanskrit. Numerous scholars say it is not found in any of the Vedic literature. So how can such a name truly represent the Vedic path or culture? And without the Vedic literature, there is no basis for “Hinduism.”

Most scholars feel that the name “Hindu” was developed by outsiders, invaders who could not pronounce the name of the Sindhu River properly. According to Sir Monier Williams, the Sanskrit lexicographer, you cannot find an indigenous root for the words Hindu or India…..

Another view of the source of the name Hindu is based on a derogatory meaning. It is said that, “Moreover, it is correct that this name [Hindu] has been given to the original Aryan race of the region by Muslim invaders to humiliate them. In Persian, says our author, the word means slave, …. ”

About The Name “Hindu”

The real root of the word is from the Tamil word ‘Sindhu'(சிந்து ) which means ‘sea,river,water,sindhu river,sindhu country,triplet verse ……’சிந்து Tamil Agaraathi, tamil-english dictionary, english words, tamil words

So since Tamil was the language of ancient India and spoken in Indus delta,the people of the area were called ‘Sindhus’ which turned to ‘Hindus’ to Persians and Indus> India to thePage on westerners.itmay be noted that the word ‘Hindu’ is not attested even once in any Vedas or other scriptures .So it is not a religious term but a geographical term only.https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-etymology-of-the-word-Hindu

Regards

Aug 28, 2016#67

Aupmanyav said:

Well, whatever you choose to call it, it still existed in India before the coming of Aryans. Religious views have existed in all societies since the time of Neanderthals. .. Invaders or traders. We used to trade with Gulf, Iran and through the Silk Route with China and countries in West. This was known as “Uttarapath” (Northern Highway) in Hindu Scriptures. As for invaders, you need to remember that the Maurya empire extended to nearly whole of Afghanistan, Kabul had Hindu kings till 1,000 AD, and the Sikh ruler Ranjit Singh marched into Kabul in 1838. So, boundaries change with time in history, nothing new in this.

paarsurrey said:

Please confine to Veda/Yajurveda from Veda.

Nothing in your post has any references from the Veda/Yajurveda. Right? Please

Regards

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

paarsurrey says:One may join the discussion in the religious forum or in this thread, the topic is still open and may be discussed to find the Truth that is everybody right to find.

Thanks and regards

Advertisements

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: