Hot Debate: Quran and Women

Post #2
paarsurrey wrote:

There was a discussion going on between friend Shad and friend FearGod on Quran verse 4:35 which is from the chapter “Women” mentioned in the OP. Friend Shad has expressed in a message that he wants to continue to discuss the verse. I give the verse 4:35 with the verses in the context:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa’النِّسَاء
[4:29]Allah desires to lighten your burden, for man has been created weak.
[4:30]O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except thatyou earnby trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
[4:31]And whosoever does that by way of transgression and injustice, We shall cast him into Fire; and that is easy with Allah.
[4:32]If you keep away from the more grievous of the things which are forbidden you, We will remove from you your minor evils and admit you to a place of great honour.
[4:33]And covet not that whereby Allah has made some of you excel others. Men shall have a share of that which they have earned, and women a share of that which they have earned. And ask Allah of His bounty. Surely, Allah has perfect knowledge of all things.
[4:34]And to every one We have appointed heirs to what the parents and the relations leave, and also those with whom your oaths have ratified a contract. So give them their portion. Surely, Allah watches over all things.
[4:35]Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because they (men) spend of their wealth. So virtuous womenare those whoare obedient, and guard the secretsof their husbandswith Allah’s protection. Andas forthose on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and leave them alone in their beds, and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High, Great.
[4:36]And if you fear a breach between them, then appoint an arbiter from his folk and an orbiter from her folk. If they (the arbiters) desire reconciliation, Allah will effect it between them. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.
[4:37]And worship Allah and associate naught with Him, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour that is a kinsman and the neighbour that is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, Allah loves not the proud and the boastful,
[4:38]Who are niggardly and enjoin people to be niggardly, and conceal that which Allah has given them of His bounty. And We have prepared for the disbelievers an humiliating punishment,
[4:39]And for those who spend their wealth to be seen of men, and believe not in Allah nor the Last Day. And whoso has Satan for his companion, let him remember that an evil companion is he.
[4:40]And what harm would have befallen them, if they had believed in Allah and the Last Day and spent out of what Allah has given them? And Allah knows them full well.


Post #160


leibowde84 said :But, what about owning property jointly as husband and wife legally? Can you address that please?

Post #164

paarsurrey responded:

In a tribal society most often if not always in head of the society the office of the religious head as well as of the government head combine in one person. In West due to the democracy both are separate, here Quran/Islam/Muhammad solved it in another way:
[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and HisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
Every Muslim has to abide by the law or by the constitution of a land one lives in. And the constitution of every country could be changed if it is against the interest/benefit of its people.
It is for this that the truthful Muslims face no problem in any country of the world in this connection.


Post #167

Why do you consider wives to be dependent then?

Post #171
Paarsurrey wrote:

One who does not work has has to be dependent on somebody? Isn’t it correct?

Post #174
 Husband and wife are mutually dependent I guess. It certainly isn’t a one way street. And, in many cases, wives are the breadwinner or both husband and wife are. Its not the 1950s anymore. Gender doesn’t dictate anything financially anymore.
Post #177
Paarsurrey wrote:

Please read post #164 intently. It answer your questions.

Post #178

I disagree. Can you explain how it answers my question?

Post #179
Paarsurrey wrote:

In a tribal society usually that is not the case. Ladies cannot till the soil with bulls, it is too tiresome.
Hope it helps.

Post #180

Then, recognizing that those distinctions are irrelevant now, shouldn’t we just ignore them? I still don’t understand why you would adhere to the principal after recognizing it is out of date.

Post #181

Paarsurrey wrote:

I never said it is out of date. There are till tribal societies in the world.
Islam is a dynamic religion, it is valid to every society. Where church/mosque and state are separate, Quran clearly makes room as to how the Muslims would behave in that society, where they are in one hand as to how the things would be done there.
The verses are very clear in this connection, therefore, please read Post #164 intently, if you may.

Post #184

I did. It doesn’t say anything about wives being dependants.

Paarsurrey says:

There is no need to jointly owning the property.
If they trust one another as husband and wife, they could have separate properties which they have acquired from their parents or what they, each of them, have purchased from their earnings and should not devour one another’s properties as mentioned in verse Quran [4:30].
Of course there is no harm if they use each other’s property together as long as they love one another as husband and wife (or wife and husband)along-with their children as a family.

Discussion forum <>Thread: “Quran and women”.

Please click the Post #164 to view, to comment and or join discussion on the topic.

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