It is up to the atheists; they all may join in to prove violence in Quran, verse by verse, from the context

Please view Paarsurrey’s comments on the following blog for your valuable opinion:

“Dwindling In Unbelief”
“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogid=26149572&postid=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1393790601994

paarsurrey said…

@Richard said:Sun Mar 02, 11:01:00 AM 2014

“You should also note the effort by paarsurrey to say the Quran was taken out of context.”Unquote

I still maintain that; since we are not in a formal debate; when you started being off-topic and shifted to Hadith and hearsay; I withdrew from the discussion temporarily.

If you can keep yourself restrained to Quran and its context; you will see me back in the discussion again.

Now it is up to the atheists; they all may join in.
Sun Mar 02, 12:03:00 PM 2014

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogid=26149572&postid=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1393790601994

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10 Responses to “It is up to the atheists; they all may join in to prove violence in Quran, verse by verse, from the context”

  1. bobbierileyjr Says:

    The humiliation Muslims have experienced in the last two centuries, is a contributing factor to the anger that is driving terrorism today. In recent years Muslims have been humiliated not only by the Jews in Palestine, but also by Christian Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo, by atheistic or Christian Russians in Chechnya, and by Hindus in Kashmir and Pakistan.

    It is hard for some Muslims to accept the shame of their international failure. After being the superpowers for over a thousands years, believing that Allah had empowered them to wipe out Christians, Jews, pagans, and to rule the whole world, today they find themselves governed politically or controlled economically by nations made up mostly of “infidels.” Many Muslims are angered by the superior power of Western countries, especially America, because they still believe in the superiority of their religion and culture which they want to impose on the rest of the world.

    It is important to make the effort to understand the development of Muhammad’s teachings on warfare, because this helps us understand why Muslims have used in the past and are still using today armed conflicts to advance the cause of Allah throughout the world. The references from the Koran are given as Sura, which means chapter, followed by the number of the verses.

    Stage One: No Retaliation
    Stage Two: Defensive Fighting is Permitted
    Stage Three: Defensive fighting is Commanded
    Stage Four: Offensive War is Commanded Against the Pagans, Christians and Jews

    Sura 5:36-38 prescribes four types of punishments for those who oppose Allah and his prophet, Muhammad: “The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter, except for those who repent before they fall into your power. In that case, know that God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. O ye who believe! Do your duty to God. Seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in His cause, that ye may prosper.”

    The four types of punishments (cutting off the head, crucifixion, maiming, or exile), which were to be applied according to the circumstances, reveal the ruthless methods used by Muslims invaders to advance their religion. Such methods stand in stark contrast to the teachings of Jesus to win men and women for the Kingdom of God by proclaiming the Good News of God’s saving grace through the atoning sacrifice of Christ.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      @bobbierileyjr :March 4, 2014 at 12:39 am

      I quote from your post above:

      “The humiliation Muslims have experienced in the last two centuries, is a contributing factor to the anger that is driving terrorism today. In recent years Muslims have been humiliated not only by the Jews in Palestine, but also by Christian Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo, by atheistic or Christian Russians in Chechnya, and by Hindus in Kashmir and Pakistan.

      It is hard for some Muslims to accept the shame of their international failure. After being the superpowers for over a thousands years, believing that Allah had empowered them to wipe out Christians, Jews, pagans, and to rule the whole world, today they find themselves governed politically or controlled economically by nations made up mostly of “infidels.” Many Muslims are angered by the superior power of Western countries, especially America, because they still believe in the superiority of their religion and culture which they want to impose on the rest of the world.

      It is important to make the effort to understand the development of Muhammad’s teachings on warfare, because this helps us understand why Muslims have used in the past and are still using today armed conflicts to advance the cause of Allah throughout the world. The references from the Koran are given as Sura, which means chapter, followed by the number of the verses.

      Stage One: No Retaliation
      Stage Two: Defensive Fighting is Permitted
      Stage Three: Defensive fighting is Commanded
      Stage Four: Offensive War is Commanded Against the Pagans, Christians and Jews”.

      This part of your post discusses politics which is not the subject matter of this blog.

      I will discuss where you quote a Quran verse in which you think there is violence and the teachings in it are against the norms of the world.

      I will try to help you.

      Thanks

    • paarsurrey Says:

      @bobbierileyjr: March 4, 2014 at 12:39 am |

      I quote from your post:
      “Sura 5:36-38 prescribes four types of punishments for those who oppose Allah and his prophet, Muhammad” unquote.

      You have mentioned Quran verses “Sura 5:36-38” in your post; I give here the verses and the verses in the context:

      [5:28] And relate to them truly the story of the two sons of Adam, when they each offered an offering, and it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. The latter said, ‘I will surely kill thee.’ The former replied, ‘Allah accepts only from the righteous.
      [5:29] ‘If thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I am not going to stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee. I do fear Allah, the Lord of the universe.
      [5:30] ‘I wish that thou shouldst bear my sin as well as thy sin, and thus be among the inmates of the Fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong.’
      [5:31] But his mind induced him to kill his brother, so he killed him and became one of the losers.
      [5:32] Then Allah sent a raven which scratched in the ground, that He might show him how to hide the corpse of his brother. He said, ‘Woe is me! Am I not able to be even like this raven so that I may hide the corpse of my brother?’ And then he became regretful.
      [5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.
      [5:34] The reward of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land is only this that they be slain or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on alternate sides, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment;
      [5:35] Except those who repent before you have them in your power. So know that Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
      [5:36] O ye who believe! fear Allah and seek the way of approach unto Him and strive in His way that you may prosper.
      [5:37] Surely, if those who disbelieve had all that is in the earth and as much over again, to ransom themselves therewith from the punishment of the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them; and they shall have a painful punishment.
      [5:38] They will wish to come out of the Fire, but they will not be able to come out of it, and they shall have a lasting punishment.
      [5:39] And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands in retribution of their offence as an exemplary punishment from Allah. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.
      Read:
      [5:40] But whoso repents after his transgression and amends, then will Allah surely turn to him in mercy; verily, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=33

      Now please prove your viewpoint from the verses you referred and the verses in the context.

      Please

    • paarsurrey Says:

      @bobbierileyjr: March 4, 2014 at 12:39 am |

      “Such methods stand in stark contrast to the teachings of Jesus to win men and women for the Kingdom of God by proclaiming the Good News of God’s saving grace through the atoning sacrifice of Christ.” Unquote

      I think you did not notice perhaps; the blog to which I had given response is owned by the atheists by the name “Dwindling In Unbelief” and the topic is “Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”; link below:

      http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/

      If you think that there is no violence in Bible; then be pleased to respond to them directly and prove to them. The Atheists assert that there are 1214 Cruel or Violent Passages in the Bible.

      Please feel free to prove to them directly that there are no cruel or violent passages/verses in the Bible.

      Thanks and regards.

  2. Christians! Please reply to the Atheists for “1214 Cruel and violent passages in Bible” | paarsurrey Says:

    […] https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/it-is-up-to-the-atheists-they-all-may-join-in-to-prove-vi… […]

  3. bobbierileyjr Says:

    First, do you acknowledge the 114 suras (chapters or parts) of the Quran are not listed in the chronological order in which Mohammad recited them?

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Yes; the verses were revealed for guidance of the prophet and his followers according to the situation on hand but the prophet was told to put the verses on the place where it was to be read/kept in the permanent arrangement; and those who committed it to memory and as also the scribes did accordingly.

      This shows that Quran is a practical guidance for the situation in hand for the believers of that time as also with the context verses in the permanent arrangement for all the situations in all times to come in future.

      For details, please read the relative place in the following chapter:

      “THE COMPILATION OF THE QURAN”
      Page 354-368

      “Introduction to the study of Holy Quran”

      by Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad s/o Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 the Promised Messiah

      http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf

  4. bobbierileyjr Says:

    OK with me John.

    I do see your recent reply Paarsurrey, at your blog. It works well enough so don’t worry.

    You agree the suras are not in chronological order. This is very important for understanding it’s content. Sura 1 was not written before Sura 2, and 1 and 2 were not written before 3, etc…When holding to context we must have the best chronological order, so from now on I will use the order laid out at Wiki’s page.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suras_in_the_Quran

    Let me know if you disagree with any thing I know to be true about the Quran and the Prophet, and the meaning of versus he dictated as truth from God. We will move this along slowly so we agree, then move along. In this way we will try to come to agreement what it is that God is teaching us through His word.

    Although I am not impartial about the Qurans’ teaching as the inspired words of God I am sincere and offer no disrespect. The world has ample evidence some in the Islamist faith use the Quran falsely to justify Jihad actions. Perhaps we will learn why and make sense of it all.

    ***
    Mohammad began preaching Islam in 610 A.D. when he was still living in Mecca. Of the 114 chapters in the Quran, 86-90 are classified as Meccan.

    I’ll refer to the Mecca Chapters as Stage One: NO RETALIATION

    While still in Mecca, Mohammad and his followers did not retaliate or fight. The suras originating during that time contained teaching typified by the following verses: (paraphrased)

    Sura 73:10,11 (be patient and bear with those who deny the truth)
    Sura 52:45,47,48 (leave them alone and wait in patience for the Lord to punish them)
    Sura 109:1,2,6 (Tell unbelievers, “You have your religion and I have mine.”)
    Sura 76:8,9 (be kind even to those taken prisoner)
    Sura 20:129,130 (also 38:15-17) (be patient with evil things said by evil people)
    Sura 20:134,135 (be patient and let the unbelievers see who is right)
    Sura 29:46 (don’t argue with Jews and Christians, but do something better, i.e., emphasize our oneness)
    Sura 16:125,126 (invite to the way of God only with gracious preaching and arguments)
    Sura 23:54 (Leave them in their ignorance)
    Sura 23:96 (It is best not to retaliate evil for evil)
    Sura 43:88,89 (just turn away from those who reject the truth, and say “Peace” to them)
    Sura 6:104 (It’s not our job to watch and be sure people believe the truth)

    There are many, many more specific references to grace, peace, love, tolerance and forgiveness.

    Of the 90 suras originating during the 13 years he lived in Mecca none contained instructions about fighting, in spite of the severe persecution, beatings, expulsion from their homes and death threats to which his small band of followers were subjected to by his fellow Quraish tribesmen idol worshipers.

    ***

    Next I will speak of the last 24 suras written from the time after 622 when Mohammad and his followers migrated to Medina to escape from the persecution in Mecca.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      http://THESUPERSTITIOUSNAKEDAPE.WORDPRESS.COM/2014/03/10/THE-OMNIMALEVOLENT-CREATOR-AND-THE-PROBLEM-OF-GOOD/COMMENT-PAGE-1/#COMMENT-13168

      PAARSURREY says:
      March 16, 2014 at 9:11 pm
      @BOBBIERILEYJR: March 15, 2014 at 6:05 pm

      Your words:
      “114 chapters in the Quran, 86-90 are classified as Meccan” Unquote

      Paarsurrey replies:

      Quran does not classify the verses or the chapters to be Meccans or Medinian .

      This has perhaps been done later on the basis of Hadith, which never existed in the time of Muhammad and was collected 250/300 years after Muhammad, or by guesswork; and therefore has no relevance with our present discussion.

      A particular verse and the verses in the context quite clarify the situation at hand; hence no need of any such classification.

      Quran is the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam/Muhammad for the Muslims whatever the denomination.

      I don’t debate with anybody to win; I only discuss.

      Our present discussion will remain focused on the topic “There is no violent verse in Quran if a verse is seen with the verses in the context”.

      That is where our discussion began. I will ignore all other things that our friend bobbierileyjr mentions, please.

      The discussion is open for everybody of any religion or no-religion, no bar from me.

      No list is to be discussed; one verse at a time with the verses in the context.

      We can discuss verse by verse, as many verses as our friends may want to.

      http://THESUPERSTITIOUSNAKEDAPE.WORDPRESS.COM/2014/03/10/THE-OMNIMALEVOLENT-CREATOR-AND-THE-PROBLEM-OF-GOOD/COMMENT-PAGE-1/#COMMENT-13168

  5. The arrangement of the chapters and verses of Quran | paarsurrey Says:

    […] https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/it-is-up-to-the-atheists-they-all-may-join-in-to-prove-vi… […]

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