Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology

John Zande an Atheist has written a post titled “How Those Who’re Paid to Know, Know The Pentateurch is Historical Fiction” that could be viewed at the following link:


Paarsurrey has re-blogged it with comments;while discussion with John Zande is going on ARKENATEN joined in to derail the discussion without adding any useful substance on the points raised in the discussion. To separate it from the focal discussion; it is given here.

January 2, 2014 at 6:42 pm
“Please quote from Quran where it has been mentioned that Islam is based exclusively on the historical validity of the Pentateuch. I don’t agree with you”

I would never presume to answer for John, but my own take is quite simple.

It matters not whether you agree or disagree. Your opinion is just that. Opinion. It does not alter the facts.

In the Qu’ran, the Patriarchs are mentioned. Abraham for one.
The Qu’ran is considered the revealed word of Allah via the angel Gabrielle to Mohammed.
The Pentateuch is now regarded by all except idiots as fiction. This is based of evidence.
Ergo, Muslims who continue to regard the Qu’ran the literal revealed word of god are either uniformed, willfully ignorant or…idiots.

Which one are you?

January 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm
How would you define the word “idiot”? Please don’t quote from a dictionary; give your own definition.

January 2, 2014 at 9:14 pm
I refuse to argue semantics with you.
The Pentateuch is regarded by almost every recognized archaeologist and most recognized scholars around the world as fiction.

As the characters (Patriarchs) featured in the Pentateuch are also featured in the Qura’n then the Qu’ran is also a work of fiction.

My definition of an idiot in context of this dialogue would be one who is unable to recognize the truth in these statements.
Someone like you, in actual fact.

Arkenaten wrote:

Moses in the Pentateuch s the same character as the Moses in the Qu’ran.
Ergo, the Quran is fiction and for you to deny this suggests you are an idiot.

January 3, 2014 at 4:10 pm
There is no restriction in joining Atheism on ignorant and idiots; perhaps there are already some out there or many if not all; I think so.

Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology; if you think it does; then please quote from it.

January 3, 2014 at 4:58 pm
Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology; if you think it does; then please quote from it.

I agree with John, the first sentence of your comment makes no sense.
However, this part I will reply to…

While you are absolutely correct that the Qu’ran makes no claims to being a history book or one on archaeology, it is claimed to be the inerrant word of your god, Allah, as passed on by Gabriel to Mohammed.

This leaves us with a rather interesting conundrum.

A) Either your god imparted false information concerning the Patriarchs and the Pentateuch or

B) Mohammed ……

There can only be one answer. Which one do you choose, A or B?

January 3, 2014 at 6:34 pm
Quran in the very beginning make it known that it is a book for guidance to humanity to the God-fearing and as such it should be referred to in the ethical, moral and spiritual matters. Why persist to use it otherwise?
Besides the historians or the archaeologists always do search for specific sites; might be mentioned in the Bible so the conclusion they drew was specific for Bible; it has no bearing on Quran whatsoever. It isJohn Zande’s oblique imagination or his ambition that he included Quran/Islam or Muslim in his post.
If he is a man of reason he should correct his stance.

January 4, 2014 at 9:39 am
No one is disputing the Qu’ran is different to the Bible. Neither is anyone disputing archaeology where it pertains solely to the bible.

The specific references the Qu’ran pertain to the characters found in the Pentateuch: namely Moses & Abraham.

Therefore, if these characters featured in the Bible are the same as those featured in the Qu’ran then it stands to reason that as the Biblical characters are now regarded as fictional then so are the same characters in the Qu’ran.

While it is acknowledged that the original word as supposedly lost by the Israelites the God of the Pentateuch, Yahweh, is the same god of the Qu’ran, Allah, who is the god of Moses and Abraham.

Whether the story has been changed is immaterial, the characters are the same, and the characters are fictional.

Thus the Qu’ran is a story about fictional characters.

January 4, 2014 at 4:04 pm
The Archaeologist were not digging locations for God or Abraham or Moses; they must be excavating sites mentioned in the Bible; if they did not find anything in them that is related only to the book that mentioned them that is Bible.

January 4, 2014 at 8:40 pm
You are missing the point.
There is no archaeological evidence to support the biblical characters and events in the Pentateuch. None.This is acknowledged by almost every recognized archaeologist and scholar on the planet.

Simply put, there was no factual information about Moses or Abraham that could have possibly been passed on to Mohammed as these characters were narrative constructs. The Israelites made them up in other words.

This means that Mohammed ……

January 4, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Did they, the Archaeologists, excavate the graves to find bones of Moses or Abraham?

January 4, 2014 at 9:45 pm
How can anyone excavate the bones of a fictional character?
Let me state this one more time. Moses and Abraham are fictional characters. The Israelites made them up. They have admitted they made them up.

Thus Mohammed …….
Do you understand?

January 4, 2014 at 9:54 pm
Then why excavate for nothing?

January 4, 2014 at 10:23 pm
They did not excavate for nothing, they excavated in an attempt to verify the biblical account.
However, there is no evidence to support the accounts in the Pentateuch.

Thus, once more. The Pentateuch os fiction and so are the characters. Thus , Mohammed ………

January 5, 2014 at 12:50 am
So they were not looking for Moses and or Abraham there; that is only Atheists’ imagination. They were also not looking for Torah there?

January 5, 2014 at 5:02 pm
Wikipedia has listed and recorded the important excavations and surveys conducted from the period 1840-2007; none of these sites is even once mentioned in Quran, so it has no specific relevance to Quran.


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