Quotes from the peaceful Islam (01): Surat At-Tawbah (The Repentance) – سورة التوبة

Paarsurrey says:

I provide the text of the verse along-with the context verses:
[9:1] This is a declaration of complete absolution on the part of Allah and His Messengerfrom all obligation to the idolaters with whom you had made promises.
[9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of the idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustratethe plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
[9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their wayfree. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters ask protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
[9:7] How can there be a treaty of these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they stand true to you, stand true to them. Surely, Allah loves those who are righteous.
[9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of you? They would please you with their mouths, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are perfidious.
[9:9] They barter the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and turn men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
[9:10] They observe not any tie of relationship or covenant in respect of anyone who truststhem. And it is they who are transgressors.

Now; what is your objection on the verses? Please

What comes to my mind...

This would be a series of simple cut and paste quotes from the Islamic book, the Quran, and translated into English according to Muslim scholars



English Source: Sahih International

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

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7 Responses to “Quotes from the peaceful Islam (01): Surat At-Tawbah (The Repentance) – سورة التوبة”

  1. Mike Says:

    You don’t seem to get it do you?
    Ok, for a moment I would just give you the pleasure to say that I might be wrong (I am most probably not, but for the sake of the discussion let us assume I were wrong). What does the context you provided add or remove anything from the cruelty of the teachings of God?

    Let us assume that I got the whole thing wrong, most probably because this book has a very sophisticated language that not even Arabs who speak it do understand it. And the translation made messed up the meaning further. So here am I asking you my friend to explain to me the story using simple English. Please consider the fact that my mother tongue language is Arabic, bur I’d close an eye and I’d kindly ask you to translate the whole text you quoted above into nowadays English. I want to know if my idea about the Sura that I quoted will change in the context you will kindly provide in simple English.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      I don’t agree with you that Quran is a book of stories, it is not. The text of Quran translated in English is before all the friends who have commented on your post on your blog and who want to participate in the discussion.
      There could be some among you who know Arabic language and are Arabs or find one Arab Atheist if there is any; Arabic dictionaries are also available online to help if there is any confusion anywhere in the human translation and the original words in Arabic language for etymology is needed. Every one of you to please mention the objection/s those are justifiable and come into minds of you all; it should not be objection for the sake of objection. It should be an original thinking of you all, not a copy paste from another opposing site. Then see if any other verse in the context clears it; unbiased. Others could give their reasons if an objection gets cleared.
      I am not a scholar; and I have no claim of piety; I am just an ordinary man in the street with an open mind. I want to see the sincerity of you all that you all are open-minded and without prejudice.
      I am not here to evangelize you; there is no dearth of numbers in Islam. I want to see the reason content in my Atheist friends. There is no compulsion on me to explain everything to you people; that does not mean I won’t help you to understand. I will try to help you, if I could.
      I don’t discuss to win; if your objections are just to win; I won’t deprive you for that feeling then I could say that you win even before the discussion.
      No foul words please; such words don’t reach me; I only see the reason content in your posts; please don’t forget to enrich your posts with it.

  2. Mike Says:

    My reply here and on your blog would be short mate. The context does not change anything. Allah mandated the killing of idolaters. Don’t play around saying like all religious people of all religions, and this is not restricted to Islam: “You took it out of context”. It doesn’t really matter, within the context, in context, above context, near context, under context, out of context, this doesn’t diminish the atrocity, enticement, and the urging of Allah “the monster” to kill other people.

    Besides, Allah is protecting his ass and his people eh? So just for the sake of my people, and since I say that in these 4 months you should not fight, then it is OK to tolerate idolaters, but just as soon as this period passes, you can kill them. What a merciful idiot is Allah!

    Well my friend, you have waaaaaaaaay to go and discuss when you read this Contradictions in the Quran (quotes from the Quran itself). Part1 http://beliefdelusion.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/contradictions-in-the-quran-quotes-from-the-quran-itself-part-1/

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Please improve your comments with reason content.


      • Mike Says:

        Paarsurrey, don’t tell me you feel insulted! I didn’t insult you, I insulted Allah, unless you are Allah (which would be very interesting) you don’t have to be/feel insulted

        Once again, reading your post and the whole Sura in all of its context as you wish does not change anything. Allah himself mandated killing. No matter under which conditions or context, killing other people should always be considered wrong.

        But you wouldn’t even consider it wrong because it goes contrary to Allah, thus you tend to justify him using decorative words like “context” and “the period it was written” etc but that doesn’t change anything. Allah is the source of evil here, no matter who is right and who is wrong, killing shouldn’t be allowed at any condition.

        Full stop.

        If you continue to argue against this, then I have nothing else to tell me my friend. You just try to hide the sun with your fingers and deny a fact that is written in your book by your god and try to find a workaround for this embarrassment.

      • paarsurrey Says:

        Did I say that I felt insulted? I did not.
        Reason/arguments and ridicule never get together.
        You are welcome with good reasons.

  3. koranist Says:

    16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message

    4:79-80 Say: ‘Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper.”

    17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe…. Hence, we have not sent you with power to determine their Faith

    24.54. Say: “Obey God, and obey the Messenger, but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger’s duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

    88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

    42:6 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach

    64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.

    28.55-56 And when they hear vain talk, they turn away there from and say: “To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant,” It is true thou wilt not be able to guide whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance

    39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.

    67:25 26 And they ask, “When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?” Say, “The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner.”

    As we can clearly see, many of the verses that talks about obeying the prophet also emphasizes the prophet’s limited authority, something that the Islamic sects do not recognize. The ruler to them has the authority to punish people for what they consider sins like drinking alcohol, eating pork, not fasting Ramadan, watching pornos etc.

    The Koran meanwhile focuses on crimes against another like stealing, killing, slandering of women falsely and oppression. It gave the believers the right to fight against those who fight them but not to transgress. It also gave people the right to defend themselves against evictions from their lands. There is no talk about punishing people for something that does not concern somebody else’s right.

    Adultery is the only place where the Koran diverted from this due to the fact that a adultery affects another party. Here the Koran sees adultery as affecting the other partner in a marriage. It’s a betrayal and a breaking of oath. But even then it placed strict standards on that but was lenient when it came to punishing slanders of women. Adultery needs four witnesses but the slander can get punished just from opening his mouth without four witnesses. It’s clear that the verse made it very difficult to implement on adultery but very easy to implement on the slanderer. Further reading of the verse about the Zani and Zania shows us that the issue came up concerning slandering of one of the prophet’s wife presumably. But adultery still affects another party as its a breaking of an oath between a man and a woman and is an act of betrayal.

    The Koran cannot order the prophet to punish people for sins, that God’s job. The Koran gave people the right and freedom to disbelieve let alone sin. Plus how the Koran understands sins is very different than how the sects understand sins.

    In the end the sects had no choice but to abrogate many of these verses, usually invoking the “sword verse”. They claim that many of these verses that gave the prophet limited authority(over those who chose to disobey him) has been abrogated by verse 9-5 or verse 9-29.

    However these verses were about the wars with the pagans, and verse 9-13 and many other verses makes it clear who instigated these battles and why. The Jizya verse (9-29) also was claimed by the sects to be a tax to be paid by non Muslims in an Islamic state for protection. However Jizya never came concerning the Medina community where the prophet and his followers had a community. And only came upon the believers entering of Mecca. Jizya could have easily been compensation for the loss of property and homes that the believers suffered after being forced into exile. The Koran forbade prophets from seeking any form of reward. They can however accept charity on behalf of the believers.

    But the Sunnah claimed otherwise. In it the prophet was ordered to fight the people till they acknowledge monotheism and also in it the prophet ordered the execution of those who apostate. That’s why they abrogated many of the verses that limited his authority. Then they simply transferred that authority to the Muslim ruler by default. The Ridda war story about Abu Bakr is a case study of this. In that story Abu Bakr apparently fought people for not paying Zakat. Now the authority was transferred from God to the prophet to one of his companions. This made it very easy to then transfer that authority to the ruler. This is why you see places where Shariah law is implemented filled with such concepts like searching cars for alcohol or flogging people for watching pornos or not wearing proper attire. None of this should concern anyone but it has become a punishable sin. God only punishes those who did not get caught and punished in this world. The sects claimed that once punished the sin falls away and disappears. You will not find such a concept in the Koran. There God punishes in a million ways and does not need humans to punish for him. I think the sects introduced this conc3ept to make people more accepting of this by making them think its better for them since God’s punishment is more severe. They also introduced stoning the adulterer by claiming the Zina verse in the Koran is concerning fornification and not adultery. They claimed that the verse about stoning was lost and is not included in the Koran but the ruling remains.

    This of course violated not only the freedom aspect of the Koran but also an eye for an eye and a life for a life. In the Koran, any punishment must be reciprocal and proportionate to the crime and it also must be targeted towards the actual perpetrators of the crime and not someone else associated to the criminal as the case with tribal laws that simply targets anyone from that tribe. They broke this by lower the bar for executions. Some Sunni scholars also gave the authority to execute homosexuals and enslave female prisoners and execute male prisoners. Something the Koran forbade. The Koran gave two options for prisoners, either freedom or ransom of some sort. They gave this authority to the ruler. This is all very sad as the taking of someone’s life is no easy matter in the Koran. God should take life and not humans, but if a person takes a life then he lost his right to live, but even then the Koran gave exile from the community as another option for murder especially if the person shows repentance. So an eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth somehow ended up being an eye for an eye lash and a tooth for a jaw.

    To be fair the Sunni orthodoxy rarely practiced some of these laws. We know of no time in history where adulterers were stoned to death. Apostasy was rarely practiced, unlike the Christians in Europe that practiced these laws left and right. So the Sunni jurist knew that some of these laws could be controversial and therefore they tended to avoid them.

    Its very unfortunate the current Islamist in Iran and Sudan and the Salafis in generally never understood why these laws were controversial. But in doing so they exposed much aspect of the sects that people were not aware of. The Sufis provided a convenient cover as they shunned legalism. But even the clerics understood that these laws were controversial. Its not easy in Islam to execute outside of murder. But this wise tradition was broken. That’s very unfortunant as now we see the culture of death has spread among Muslims till Islam became synonymous with violence and killing. Once you lower the bar it spirals out of control.

    One thing is crystal clear from all this. The Koran’s take on human authority and freedom is RADICALLY different than how the Sunni/Shia sects understand it. Therefore the biggest difference between a Koranic state and a Sunni or Shia state will come in the form of the state’s authority over the masses. It is this, more than anything else, that separates the Koran from the Sunnah. That’s why the Abbasids championed the Sunnah over the Mutazilites. The Mutaziltes couldn’t find the ink inthe Koran to give them such draconian authority. The sects did that by first bringing the divine authority from God to prophet, then propet to Caliph (companions) and now that authority is in Omar Al Bashir, Khamenei, Mullah Omar and Al Saud. And that’s very sad.

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