Jesus god-the-father: a fallacy of Catholics Protestants

There took place an interesting discussion on the above topic, initiated by me, on my favorite discussion forum, the hubpages:

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86391

I will give here some of the posts to have you a taste of the same.

OP by paarsurrey

Catholics Protestants think Jesus was god; rather as some say he was “god-the-father”; then the Christians say that Mary was begotten by god-the-father.

It is a wrong concept; because that would makes Jesus , I take refuge with the Creator God, husband of Mary.

I don’t think it is a correct concept that Jesus ever believed.

When the Catholics Protestants say “Yahshua was God the Father Himself manifest in the flesh”; what exactly they mean.

I want to understand.

1. thooghun wrote:

I’m not religious, but I have read the bible a few times. I’m sure a learned Christian could correct me, however the impression I got was:

Jesus is neither man nor God. But a unity (the holy trinity) of three distinct natures, comprised of the father (God), the son (Jesus — specifically the man) and the Holy Spirit.

Paarsurrey now comments in this blog:

If there are three different natures; they depict three different persons, not one.

2. A Troubled Man@ paarsurrey

“I want to understand.”

No, you don’t. You just want to continue your onslaught of other religions while propagating the virtues of your religion.

You must also believe we’re really stupid.

3. Brenda Durham

@ OP
Mary wasn’t anybody’s wife except Joseph’s.
God was not Mary’s husband. Jesus was not Mary’s husband.
God has no literal wife.

Jesus was a manifestation of God the Father.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE God; they are One, with distinct manifestations and purposes but totally inseparable.

4. couturepopcafe

@ OP

paars – I would explain it like this: The Supreme One is able to project Himself in a way that is visible to humans so we can understand that it is possible to be perfect. IMO, Jesus was a projection of the mind of God, sent to teach us how to live. When we reach a point in our own life of perfection, this is Nirvana, Heaven, when we will have the same power Jesus had.
Paarsurrey now replies:

How do you know “The Supreme One” wants to project himself before the humans in human form? This is just your presumption; and against the attributes of the Creator God.

5. Arcjahad

Trinity is a false doctrine our heavenly father is not the author of confusion the reason the trinity is confusing to some is because it is false , the messiah said he is the son of God not that he is God ,the Creator said that the messiah is my son not that he is me in the flesh , as a child growing up in a Baptist church I always knew that when the grownups said God died on the cross for us I always said they sounded stupid it’s his son not him , children always know spiritual truth

6. Emile R

What I got from the story was that he was Son of God and Son of Man while on earth; which meant his spirit was the spirit of God. His flesh was that of a human. It was the flesh that made him the Son, but his spirit was fully the Ancient of Days. God didn’t breathe life into his spirit, because his spirit was the breathe itself.

Paarsurrey now replies:

It is just your guess, not a reality.

7. couturepopcafe@Arcjahad

It’s not confusing to me at all so I must be more enlightened than the ‘some’. The trinity is not doctrine at all, it’s a concept created to allow man to understand the 3 aspects of life – mind, flesh/heart, spirit/soul/energy force. There’s nothing unclear about this. All ascetics have learned this. IMO, the habitual thought patterns of humans is what stands in the way of the genuine impressions of the One.

Jesus was also called the Son of Man, among other names. He forgave the sins of those who had faith in his power. Who can forgive sins but God only? Mark 2:5-12 “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say Arise and take up thy bed and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” etc. If you believe in the Christian doctrine, this clearly says Jesus is God as Man.

8. couturepopcafe
@thooghun
“I’m not religious, but I have read the bible a few times. I’m sure a learned Christian could correct me, however the impression I got was:

Jesus is neither man nor God. But a unity (the holy trinity) of three distinct natures, comprised of the father (God), the son (Jesus — specifically the man) and the Holy Spirit.”

That’s pretty much the way I understand the concept. Except it’s God as Trinity. I guess it really could go any which way if they are all the same being. Father is mind, Son is heart, Spirit is soul just like we humans.

9. Brenda Durham wrote:

“Jesus was a manifestation of God the Father.”
Paarsurrey wrote:
That makes Jesus a messenger prophet of the Creator God; every messenger prophet manifests the attributes of the Creator God; nothing different from others.

10. couturepopcafe wrote:

paars – I would explain it like this: The Supreme One is able to project Himself in a way that is visible to humans so we can understand that it is possible to be perfect. IMO, Jesus was a projection of the mind of God, sent to teach us how to live. When we reach a point in our own life of perfection, this is Nirvana, Heaven, when we will have the same power Jesus had.

Paarsurrey wrote:
That is with every prophet messenger of the Creator God; they were perfect human beings who achieved attributes of the Creator God as one mortal can; this way they became in image of the
Creator God; nothing special with human Jesus.
11. Arcjahad wrote:
“Trinity is a false doctrine”
Paarsurrey wrote:
– created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.
Posted 10 days ago
12. Greek One@paarsurrey :
“- created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.”
sinful?

Didn’t you say they were misguided just the other day?

Which one were they?
13. Disappearinghead

@paarsurrey wrote:
“- created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.”
You don’t think Muhammad was sinful then Paar?
14. paarsurrey
@Disappearinghead wrote:
“You dont think Muhamed was sinful then Paar?”

All human beings are born innocent unless they commit a sin when they get mature.

All messenger prophets of the Creator God were innocent; their selection for this high office by the Creator God is a proof they were all innocent; they did not commit any sin; and if they did my mistake they asked forgiveness from Him; and He is most Merciful and the Most-forgiver.

Muhammad was messenger prophet; he was, therefore, innocent.

15. paarsurrey
@Greek One
“Sinful? Didn’t you say they were misguided just the other day? Which one were they?”
A misguided is a sinful person; it is the same thing in other words.

Hubpages is a good discussion site; one could comment there or here in this blog; comments are most welcome.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86391

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5 Responses to “Jesus god-the-father: a fallacy of Catholics Protestants”

  1. Hank Kimball Says:

    All the theology in the world and you still need 2 dollars to get a cup of coffee. People just love to debate useless knowledge. They have absolutely no choice but to let the mind lead them around.

    I feel no need to interpret information that isn’t open to personal interpretation. Hey! guess what science and plain observation has discovered? The fact that natural disasters like earthquakes and volcano eruptions are caused by plate tectonics and not any God punishing bad people.

    Sure; every time there was a natural disaster; according to the BIBLE’S authors, it was because there were bad people that God needed to punish. Yeah. Right. That’s what happened. The Bible is sooo loaded and packed with man’s shame, ignorance and fear that it does more TO SEPARATE MAN FROM GOD; than bring man to Him.

    That anyone can regard it as “The Word Of God” is ignorant and naive. I am not saying it doesn’t contain any truth. The truth is one cannot come to an understanding of ones constitutional position in relation to God’s universe using it.

    Isn’t that the REAL deal? Establishing the soul as the only reality in ones life? I was once a guy that believed statements like the ones I made here, were blasphemy at best. Unless you discover the obstacles in yourself that block you off from God; fear, selfishness, illusion(believing things that aren’t true) and self-seeking behavior; you can’t establish a conscious contact with God.

    All the reading and studying in the world will not give anyone an experience with God. If selfishness is the problem with the world; than selfishness is each and everyone of our problems. Learning how to spot, admit and seek God for direction and removal of these obstacles in daily Life IS THE ONLY path to a spiritual life and self- realization or God consciousness.

    But No. People want to read books and engage in windy arguments. Theology is a straight waste of time. I don’t care how GOOD it feels or makes you. God don’t need saints. HE WANTS WORKERS!!!!!

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Hank Kimball wrote:

      The fact that natural disasters like earthquakes and volcano eruptions are caused by plate tectonics and not any God punishing bad people.

      Paarsurrey says:

      What I understand very humbly is that every phenomenon that we observe has a scientific cause; which we apparently see and observe; but it has an inherent cause, in the unseen, that is spiritual.

      The first one is physical or apparent truth and the later one is the real or absolute truth.

      Nothing happens in this world, not a leave cold drop off the branch of a tree unless it has been ordained by the Creator God:

      [6:60] And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them but He. And He knows whatsoever is in the land and in the sea. And there falls not a leaf but He knows it; nor is there a grain in the deep darkness of the earth, nor anything green or dry, but is recorded in a clear Book.

      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=59

      There is a purpose of human life set by the Creator God; when the human being become cruel and do injustice and forget the purpose; then the same factors of Nature which had been set in service and help of the human beings by the Creator God; they turn against the wrong doers under a higher order of the creation; the hidden hand of the Creator God punishes them. They deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth; they had in fact already shown their consent just by being arrogant and cruel.

      But the Merciful and Kind – the Creator God; sends before such calamities a truthful Warner or Messenger of Him:

      [17:16] He who follows the right way follows it only for the good of his own soul: and he who goes astray, goes astray only to his own loss. And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. We never punish until We have sent a Messenger.

      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=17&verse=15

      Like now; He has sent now Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, a successor Caliph of truthful Muhammad in our present era. He is the End Times Messiah and Imam Mahdi.

      The natural causes are there for the famines, tsunamis, diseases, earthquakes, volcano eruptions and floods; and for them more scientific research should be made; that is no denied; but the moral and spiritual causes should not be ignored.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      @Hank Kimball

      Learning how to spot, admit and seek God for direction and removal of these obstacles in daily Life, IS THE ONLY path to a spiritual life and self- realization or God consciousness.

      Paarsurrey says:

      I agree with you there; and that has been expressed by the Creator God in the very first chapter of Quran. He has taught us the human beings, a perfect prayer to that effect. It is named Fatehah – the Opener of heart and soul for self realization, God consciousness and is the only path to spiritual life:

      1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.

      [1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,

      [1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,

      [1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.

      [1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.

      [1:6] Guide us in the right path —

      [1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

      http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

  2. Natural, moral and spiritual causes of tsunamis and calamities « paarsurrey Says:

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  3. The only path to spiritual life « paarsurrey Says:

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