“Word become flesh”- a wrong notion of Catholics Protestants if taken literally

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/jesus-is-no-savior-of-christians-if-he-couldnt-save-himself-death-on-cross/#comment-912

somethingcrazy Says:

If you want to see that Jesus created, then just check out the first verses of John’s gospel:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning”

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend somethingcrazy

I thank you for participating in the discussion.
Please go through the passages quoted by you again. I don’t see Jesus’ name mentioned in them; if I have missed please underline Jesus’ name in them.

I think it is only a guess of the Catholics Protestants that Jesus’ name has been literally mentioned there; maybe it is just another phenomenon, which John, only a human being wrongly took up like that; nevertheless it is not binding on others to subscribe to John’s mistakes or his wrong views or concepts.

I think it is a mistake of our Christian friends to make Jesus a god; like our Hindu friends have made Krishna a god, in my opinion.
But for Paul; Jesus truthful followers would have never taken Jesus to be a god. Matthew, Marks and Luke did not mention that Word has become flesh.

You might have spoken many words in your life. Did you ever see that any of your Word has become flesh? Your Word would have never even smelt like flesh. It is your tongue and lips and your throat made of flesh that help one to make words, and of course the teeth made of bones, which helps to make the words. The reverse phenomenon never happens, in my opinion.

It is just a mistake of John, or those who wrote for John that they thought otherwise, in my opinion.

Jesus never thought like this; how could he had claimed to be god when he knew that he literally created no new Sun, no new Moon and no new Earth. It is only an accusation of Catholics Protestants against Jesus that Jesus claimed to be literally god.

Jesus could have asserted himself for his claims and reasons more clearly and in a straightforward manner. Whom Jesus as a god had to fear about? Jesus needed no self-appointed spokesmen like Paul or Church, in my opinion. Since Jesus was not god so he did not claim it unequivocally.

I love Jesus for his wisdom. Jesus feared nobody except God Allah YHWH whose humble servant Jesus was, in my opinion.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

7 Responses to ““Word become flesh”- a wrong notion of Catholics Protestants if taken literally”

  1. internet elias Says:

    Ahmadi…I know nothing about the Muslin religion. But I do know about God, Christ, Holy Spirit (Trinity). The Three are One…manifested in three persons for different purposes. All three are Truth as revealed in the divinely inspired or ‘God breathed’ scriptures named Bible. As God, Christ, and Holy Spirit are all unseen..or Spirit…they are revealed in what is seen…all creation. But beyond being revealed by things that are ‘made’…they are more revealed by spiritual encounter. ‘My sheep know me. They hear my voice.’

    As Somethingcrazy said, ‘In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God…..’ You do NOT SEE JESUS here because you don’t UNDERSTAND about the ‘three are one.’ Word/God/Father, Word/Christ/Son, Word/Christ/Holy Comforter….are all the same being…seen in different funtions. Other reference, too, are God e.g. Truth, Redeemer, Savior, Lord, Father, Son, Spirit, Righteous One, …and so forth…all are our precious God.

    Word of Truth = God (Word is Truth..a real spiritual entity…and is part of the essence of God)

    Word became flesh = Jesus (The part of God that is Truth..Word..became incarnated into Jesus, the Son of God, who was both man and God. But, the Word having become the Son of God, Jesus, who was purposed to ascend back to the Father (God) after resurrecting from death and hell….would now require a ‘third’ manifestation of the Godhead…Holy Comforter or Holy Spirit….who would indwell believers..or followers..or Redeemed. But all three are God..in different manifestations…for different purposes and times.

    As man is spirit…the alive part of man within the physical body. The part of man that is eternal and leaves the fleshly body at its death…so is God a Spirit. The body goes back to dust..but the spirit is eternal. Life is in the spirit or innerman…not in the body. It is the spirit that gives life to the body. The spirit lives without the body. But the body does not live without the spirit.

    In Christianity..to KNOW God..one must first believe that He is. And at some point, God will ‘draw’ or reveal Himself to the person. At that point a response is needed from the person. If the response is to acknowledge God as soveriegn, as Father, as Redeemer in the form of the incarnate Son, Jesus…one is then ready for regeneration from the ‘fallen’ state man which began at Eden. The Word of Bible is the beginning place for that regeneration. The Bible is the Word of voice of God. God literally revealed its Truth to ordinary men who recorded things from God. But since the Bible is the voice of God in written form…only a being who has the mind of God…can explain the meaning of scriptures. That being is the Holy Comforter who came after Jesus went back to the Father. So the Truth of God can only be known by spiritual descenment…by literally having the Holy Comforter as the Teacher. But like all religions, many choose to ‘do their own things.’ It is only in following the one ‘way’ that one is able to fellowship with God.

    There are many who experience such revelations…both in ancient times…and today. God communicates with His children. He depicts Himself in Christ as the Shepherd who gently cares for the sheep. That’s why the scripture says ‘my sheep know me. They hear my voice.’ I have heard that voice many times. I have suffiecient understanding of Father, Son, Holy Comforter to know that they are DRIVEN by pure Love. And LOVE of that nature is unlike man’s love. God’s love wants for others rather than self. Serves others rather than self. Honors others rather than self. BELIEVES GOD!

    But much, much, much false understanding prevail. Many Christians are selfish, loving self but not others, hateful, liars, greedy. argumentative, self-righteous, and they provoke anger in others because of their combative natures. These so-called Christians or followers do not have the Holy Comforter indwelling thier hearts. They are those who say ‘Lord’…but do not KNOW Him. They misinterpret the Truth since they teach themselves and have no fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

    But God and Truth never change…though many attempt to tell God what to do. God is enduring, patient, longsuffering..and gives ample time for man to repent. It is not His will that any perish ‘but that all come to repentance.’

    As I said, I’m sure all these explanations are as foriegn to you as the explanation of the Muslin religion is to me. But we both are of the family of man. I appreciate you without knowing you. I desire good for you without knowing you.

    Happy I came across your blog site.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Hi friend internet elias

      Thanks for visiting my blog and commenting on my post. I hope you will continue it. You are most welcome to express yourself fully in this blog. Yes we are human beings and we should respect one another’s faith; though I (and you of course also) will accept anything only if it is expressed in reason, logic and rational arguments; this is the human language.

      Do you agree with me that it is human to accept things if these are expressed in the form of reason, logic and rational arguments? This is the human language. Isn’t it?

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  2. internet elias Says:

    Hello. Thanks for responding to my comment. You said, ‘Do you agree with me that it is human to accept things if these are expressed in the form of reason, logic and rational argument? This is the human language. Isn’t it?”

    No, actually, I do not agree that we should accept only the things which can be explained in human language. Even in the human realm, there are many things that exists outside of logic and reason. God is beyond explanation using human language. He is beyond what the human mind can comprehend or express using human language. But knowing man’s limitations, He reveals or explains Himself well within the boundaries of human language..logic and reason. Logic and reason are ‘understanding.’ The God-made ability of man’s thought processes are capable of great knowledge. But if man is truly able to use inate logic and reason concerning things of God…man must be taught by the Holy Comforter. Then man uses his logic and reason to comprehend it all. Logic and reason surely deduces that there exists not only the ‘seen’…but also the ‘unseen.’

    Natural forces such as gravity, inertia, and the multitude of the man…are seen only by their outcomes. My logic and reason becomes so very excited when I think on the immenses of all.

    God is a master of logic and reason.. He made a universe. He put within that universe an planet inhabitied by man. He set a time starting at Beginning and reaching to Ending. Within that continuum of Time, He set forth a plan for man. He would give them great understanding…called ‘free will’ or freedom to choose his own destiny. As logic requires, God gave man only two choices..Life or Death. And, too, as logic requires…God or Allah demonstrated by example…through logic and reason…the reality of it all.

    He created two of all things and concepts. They two reveal each other. One does not exist without the other.

    Light/Dark: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Male/Female: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Up/Down: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Hot/Cold: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Truth/Deception: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Good/Evil: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Life/Death: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    Right/Wrong: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other

    God/Man: one reveals by contrast the characteristics of the other.

    God has left nothing necessary to man…unrevealed or unexplained.

    Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…within the realm of Christianity..is one of the most logical and reasonable things known to man.

    Again, thanks for your response.

    I am Carolyn/internetelias.wordpress.com

  3. theoriginalshawn Says:

    please continue to read the gospel of John, it addresses the point clearly in vs. 14. If you take the gospels under scrutiny of your opinion as a standard, you will make it say what you like. However, if you agree that the Bible is the truth, then you must agree that this reference is clearly speaking of Jesus, whom His faithful ones call Messiah, the Son of God.

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Hi friend theoriginalshawn

      The Bible is ascribed to sinful scribes; it might have partial truth in it. I never believed that Bible is the whole truth. The scribes who deserted Jesus at the hour of need are not even worthy of being considered as believers; not to speak of them being inspired people. They were not inspired people; if John got something wrong in his concepts; we are not bound to accept it as an absolute truth unless it is supported and proved with rational, logical and reasonable arguments.

      I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      • theoriginalshawn Says:

        If you only take parts of the Bible as truth, you have no grounds for an argument against the truth scripture, using the scripture itself. That is like saying, “look at this false document, it says right here it is false, therefore it must not be true!”

  4. internet elias Says:

    Paarsurrey.. The Bible is the inspired Word of God…revealed and written through men chosen by God to do so. There is no contradiction from Genesis through the final book of Revelations. You, who are of another religion..cannot understand its Truths. One must ‘seek’ God for understanding. Clear to all who ‘seek’ its Truth is the fact that NOBODY caused the death of Christ. He came to earth as a man for the one purpose of giving His own soul and body to death, hell, resurrection, and ascention back to God. He is God in the person of a Son. They two are one being. In the Bible, Christ told Pilate ‘don’t you know I could call legions of angels’ to deliver me. You don’t take my life. I GIVE MY LIFE.’

    The Bible is True. You cannot ‘see’ its Truth since you are ‘seeking’ other truths. Logic and reason teaches us that things ‘unseen’ are as real as things ‘seen.’

    Carolyn

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: