“Hi friend Eddie

“I am really happy to receive your response. Quran is a very small book as compared to the Bible. So you may start reading it. It is an interesting read. The Quran presents accounts of Jesus in a very straightforward manner. I will like to quote here some verses from a chapter of Quran:”

Eddie writes:

I appreciate your friendly manner, but I do not wish to get into a contest as to which Scripture is inspired by God. I don’t believe anything lasting is accomplished in trying to expose one another’s Scriptures as fraudulent.

Suffice to say that the Scriptures you offered disagree with the Christian NT. For example, you wrote that the Quran states :

[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.

While the Christian NT says:

Matthew 11:27 WORNT All things are delivered to me by my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, but the Father; nor does anyone know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son is pleased to reveal Him.

Clearly, the NT claims Jesus does know the Father, and this opposes the Quran’s point of view. Both cannot be correct on this matter. For me to enter into a study of the Quran, as you politely suggest, I would need to know why I should do so. What does the Quran offer me? What does it say that Jesus accomplished during his life on the earth and how does that apply to me?

I already know what the Christian Scriptures say about him, and I believe them. Why should I study the Quran, if it contradicts what I believe to be true? The Scriptures you offered don’t give a reason why the Christian Scriptures are wrong, and you haven’t shown me any reason that I should doubt what they say either.

It’s late, so I’ll just say, I hope you will have a good and blessed day tomorrow.

“Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.”

Eddie:

Hi Paarsurrey, I am glad to find you replied to my comment.

I am not a student of the Quran, but I have read a little. I have no argument per se with what you write above. I agree that parables are allegorical writings and the meanings of the parables are contained within the text itself. We are not to put “our” words in Jesus’ mouth. So, in essence we are in agreement here.

Hi friend Eddie

I am really happy to receive your response. Quran is a very small book as compared to the Bible. So you may start reading it. It is an interesting read. The Quran presents accounts of Jesus in a very straightforward manner. I will like to quote here some verses from a chapter of Quran:

[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.
[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.
[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise.”
[5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide for ever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the great triumph.’
[5:121] To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever is in them; and He has power over all things.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=5&verse=116

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

“Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.”

Eddie:

Hi Paarsurrey, I am glad to find you replied to my comment.

I am not a student of the Quran, but I have read a little. I have no argument per se with what you write above. I agree that parables are allegorical writings and the meanings of the parables are contained within the text itself. We are not to put “our” words in Jesus’ mouth. So, in essence we are in agreement here.

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Jesus was a man – a prefect man like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world; and as such he was loved one of the Creator- God Allah YHWH that is why he might have sometimes expressed himself it in terms of son of God, if he ever said like that. He was also in perfect image of the Creator, like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world, which the simple minded deserting, unfaithful and superstitious disciples mistook as if he was god.”

Eddie writes:

You imply that Jesus was no different from any other man who ever existed. If such is true, why would God consider him any different than you or me? You express doubt that Jesus ever expressed himself as the Son of God, but I understood Islamic people believe the Gospel accounts in the NT are true. If I am mistaken here, you may correct me. I don’t often have the opportunity to speak with Islamic people, so my understanding may be in error. In any event, if Jesus did not call himself the Son of God, for what reason was he crucified, according to your understanding? There had to have been a reason for the judgment against him, and it had to have been considered a capital offense according to Jewish law at the time. What do you say?

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Jesus also mentioned himself as son of Adam or Son of Man; which only meant that Jesus approved that Adam and Eve were innocent ; whatever mistake they had committed, they had repented it and asked forgiveness from the Creator –God Allah YHWH, and they were forgiven. Jesus so much appreciated it he took Adam as his father.”

Eddie writes:

We disagree here. Indeed, Jesus refers to himself as the “Son of Man” which does refer to Adam. However, this is a Messianic title, since he is the Son or seed that was promised to Eve that would make (spiritual) war with the seed of darkness. I do not agree that Adam ever repented. There is no evidence in the Scriptures that he ever asked for forgiveness. It seems you are adding your own words here, unless the Quran teaches you that such is true. If so, would you provide the address of the place where the Quran says this?

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Jesus abhors all such claims of being son of god or god or part of any trinity. These are only wrong concepts of the cunning Paul and the sinful and deserting disciples whom Jesus never trusted, in my opinion.”

Eddie writes:

Do you have evidence in Jesus’ words that he abhors being thought of as God? As for the Trinity, it is not mentioned in the Bible. I do not use terms to describe God that are not supported within the Scriptures, especially Jesus’ words in the Gospel accounts. I am not a Trinitarian. As for Paul, could you give an example of his deserting Jesus or that Jesus never trusted him?

Paarsurrey wrote:

“The confusion is not in Jesus but in the writings of the sinful scribes and cunning Paul; they projected him like a confused person, never telling things in straightforward manner.”

Eddie writes:

You still have not offered an example. I cannot comment upon what you do not write. I understand that you don’t believe what Christians believe, because you state that clearly. However, you don’t offer anything definitive that shows how Paul or anyone else who wrote the NT Scriptures, for that matter, misrepresented Jesus.

Have a good and blessed day, my friend.

“Bible presents Jesus as a confused man…” perhaps you could give an example of such confusion.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend Eddie,

Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.

Jesus was a man – a prefect man like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world; and as such he was loved one of the Creator- God Allah YHWH that is why he might have sometimes expressed himself it in terms of son of God, if he ever said like that. He was also in perfect image of the Creator, like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world, which the simple minded deserting, unfaithful and superstitious disciples mistook as if he was god.

Jesus also mentioned himself as son of Adam or Son of Man; which only meant that Jesus approved that Adam and Eve were innocent ; whatever mistake they had committed, they had repented it and asked forgiveness from the Creator –God Allah YHWH, and they were forgiven. Jesus so much appreciated it he took Adam as his father.

Jesus abhors all such claims of being son of god or god or part of any trinity. These are only wrong concepts of the cunning Paul and the sinful and deserting disciples whom Jesus never trusted, in my opinion.

The confusion is not in Jesus but in the writings of the sinful scribes and cunning Paul; they projected him like a confused person, never telling things in straightforward manner.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“If Jesus was god; of whom he was afraid of not admitting it clearly…” could you give an example of Jesus’ fear—from his own words or actions?

“Why should he say that he was his son? Please give explanation from Jesus’ words.” I will give an example from Jesus’ words, but I have to wonder why you would doubt his words here. He was condemned to death for admitting he was God’s own Son. His statement was not in the sense that people everywhere are God’s children by virtue of his creating us—why would anyone consider that blasphemy? Neither could it be taken to mean he was a son of God by virtue of his righteousness or his being a Jew, for all righteous Jews saw themselves as God’s children in that sense. I have to wonder in what sense you could possibly understand Jesus’ claim here in the Synoptics. There is no other option except to say he is God’s Son by virtue of his literal begetting him in the womb of Mary. It is my understanding that all Islamic believers who accept the Quran as their holy book believe God is literally responsible for Jesus birth, meaning no human male was responsible for Mary’s pregnancy.

Concerning Jesus own words as an explanation, they are found in his third chronological open claim to Deity, John 10:15-33. Here Jesus claimed God is his Father, and he based his words on the text found in Psalm 82 where God refers to men in authority as “gods” by virtue of their sharing in God’s power. However, Psalm 82:8 says: “Arise O God: judge the earth, for you shall inherit all nations.” Notice that God “inherits” all nations. Who gives God “all nations”? Psalm 2 gives us the answer. God gives the nations to his Son (Psalm 2:8). God, the Father of all, gives all nations to his only begotten Son, called God in Psalm 82:8! Jesus, while speaking to the Jewish authorities in John 10, referred to this Scripture and they took up stones to kill him.

There you have it, my friend, in Jesus’ own words. By the way, I apologize for thinking your name is Ahmadi. I didn’t realize until after I posted my comment to you that this was not your name. Have a good an blessed day!

Eddie

“because he was saying he was God’s Son”

Bible presents Jesus as a confused man. If Jesus was god; of whom he was afraid of not admitting it clearly. Why should he say that he was his son?Please give explanation from Jesus’ words.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

I am Eddie a peaceful Christian. I am happy to make your acquaintance.

I hope you don’t mind my replying to your cordial post. I found it as a possible related post to one of my posts in my blog today. I, too, do not believe Jesus was “a” god who became man. I believe he was God who became man. I am not a believer in the Trinity doctrine, and I am a monotheist just like you, but I believe our God is much more complex than we can imagine. He gave us an image of himself in Genesis 1 & 2 when he created the male AND the female. Both are the single image of God. The woman came out of the man, and Jesus is described as coming out from God (the Father).

Concerning your request about the Synoptics—Matthew, Mark and Luke. They do describe Jesus as God, just as John does (and John wasn’t merely expressing his opinion, by the way). The clearest declaration of Jesus Deity is found in his trial before the Sanhedrin on the night and the morning before his crucifixion (Matthew 26:63-66, Mark 14:61-64 and Luke 22:66-71). Matthew and Mark record Jesus’ illegal trial—a kind of rehearsal for the legal trial before the whole Sanhedrin in the morning. Jesus was condemned for blasphemy, because he was saying he was God’s Son, showing he was God (Psalm 2:7-8; 89:27; 82:8).

Take care, Ahmadi, and may God bless you with an ever increasing understanding of his holy word.

The only solution is that one should compare the attributes of the Creator – God Allah YHWH. Quran does allow that Allah may be called Al-Rehman if one likes to.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

No “Good without God?”: Jesus neither god nor Son of god

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/%E2%80%A2no-%E2%80%9Cgood-without-god%E2%80%9D-jesus-neither-god-nor-son-of-god/

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim