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“”The proof is in the pudding”"- paul8bee

Hi everybody

I received a comment from our friend paul8bee on my post: http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/cross-a-symbol-of-terror-of-the-ancient-romans-should-not-be-used-by-the-peaceful-christians-now/#comments.

I want to share it with my friends viewers who visit my blog, please. An interesting post; though it is not essential that I agree with his views. Paul8bee has blog of his own; one may like to access it:
http://paulscave.wordpress.com

Paul8bee says:

“”The proof is in the pudding”"

I looked this up too.

It means that the true value or quality of something can
only be judged when it’s put to use or tried and tested.
The meaning is often summed up as:
“Results are what count…it’s not how you start, but how you finish.”

I will explain my understanding of Proof
Proof is “sufficient evidence to convince.” Once convinced, no further evidence is necessary. In a debate, both sides present their arguments and evidence.

It does not matter how much evidence you have, or how authoritative it is, (for example, god himself could have spoken). If the other person is not convinced, you have no proof.

But can anyone prove anything with absolute certainty? In the absence of absolute certainty I myself rely of faith, but faith alone is risky, as there is a chance I could put my trust in a falsehood.

Some people are more easily convinced about things than others. There are those too who just need stronger evidence.

But then there is the person who just will just reject any and all arguments. He will resist all logic and evidence and fight to the end, and you will be wrong till the end of time. He is possessed by a spirit of belligerent denial, and it seems that nothing short of a lightning bolt from god himself will change his view, and that may not help either.

This type of person challenges me the most. He makes me rethink my thinking and try harder to become clear in what I say. I have often found error in my own thinking this way. I also was this arrogant person at one time. It took years for me to learn, that I did not know it all.

Thanks Ahmadi for the useful info on the Muslim way of thinking. I do not know very many Muslims here where I live on Vancouver Island BC Canada. I lived in Germany once, for 6 years, in 1986, and got to know many Turkish Muslims. They were very decent people.

I agree that books can easily be twisted out of shape. Each time a story is told by someone new, the story changes a little bit. After a few centuries, the original story is totally different than it started out to be.

Trouble with Jesus, is, that there are no eyewitness accounts, just books written decades after the fact. Jesus himself did not write a book, (It would have been something if he did)
In many ways, people are discussing their personal private views on what Jesus is, and was.

I claim that Jesus lives in the minds and hearts of the people who claim to know him. So that is a good place to look. I look for similarities and not so much the differences.

Catholic atrocities on Celtic and Gales, in the past

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=148202;article=225230

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=148202

Ceallaigh O’Garailt (Kelly Garre
I am sure there is some kind of “proof”…
Tue Mar 17, 2009 19:23
24.99.161.122

buried deep in the vatican, but short of that it is just the stories of the survivors…our side of that history. No cameras 1200 years ago. Other than taking you back in a time machine so you can watch them douse children in Hazelnut oil and set them on fire so they would set the crops on fire while they ran screaming through them like little living torches. In that case, I will just give you the keys to the time machine so you can go by yourself…I don’t think I could take it. We were small peanuts, numbers wise. Just a little over a million of us, but they did a much bigger and better job since then. I seem to remember an estimate of around 56 million godless scum wiped out by your Christian brothers and sisters in the west so far (Europe and the New World), if you include the death camps of Germany in the mid-twentieth century.

Whether it was a “crime” or not is relative. From our point of view it was a crime, but from the Christian point of view they were just doing what your god told them to do. Doing your god’s will is certainly not a “crime” to his followers.

Laigh Wedda

Hi friend Ceallaigh O’Garailt,

Cruelty is cruelty whether done by a Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jews or an Atheist Agnostic. I do condemn this act of cruelty done by Catholics against the Celtics and Gales, if they did it; and if the same act is done by the Atheists against the Catholics, it would be equally condemnable.

I think what the Communists of Russia, who were Atheists, did with the Catholics or with the Eastern Orthodox, was also wrong.

Humans should behave equitably and with justice; if they don’t do it, they are simply not human beings. In the same way people believing in a revealed religion must be peaceful, if they are not, simply they don’t believe in that religion; and their religion is not responsible for their actions. It would be wrong to generalize it, in any case. Now I am not a Christian, so why blame me for something not done by me; why tell me that your Christians did it.

If the Catholics blame me for the wrongs done by the Atheists; would that be justifiable for them? No, never. So, kindly, don’t do it to me.

Muslims are commanded in Quran to do justice with others and respect every human being; if the Muslims start slaughtering a people, Quran/Islam/Muhammad, are simply not responsible for their actions.

Over generalization is dangerous and is not expected from the intelligent Humanists. You are friend of mine. I respect you; even if you differ with me, I would still respect you. Freedom has been endowed, in my opinion, to every person in the world. If Christians are my brothers in humanity, the Atheists are also my brothers in humanity. I hardly see much difference.

I love Buddha and Socrates wise men; one from the West and one from the East.

Thank

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus did not sanctify gospels; church did without any authority

Originally Posted by George
Why isn’t extra-biblical accounts good enough for you?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi

If all extra-biblical accounts would have been creditable then many other gospels rejected by church later would have not been rejected by the Church. Kindly therefore support your historic stuff from the secular historic sources.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Word became flesh?!!!

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4843560&postcount=74
Word became flesh?!!!

Originally Posted by Benadam:
Paarsuay, If God were to become a human person imagine for yourself how it would be and you might see the way Jesus behaved is very fitting.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi

I think it is a mistake of our Christian friends to make Jesus a god; like our Hindu friends have made Krishna a god, in my opinion.

But for Paul/s ; Jesus followers would have never taken Jesus to be a god, in my opinion. Matthew, Marks and Luke did not mention that Word has become flesh. You might have spoken many words in your life. Did you ever see that any of your Word has become flesh? Your Word would have even never smelt like flesh. It is your tongue and lips and your throat made of flesh that help one to make words, and of course the teeth made of bones, that helps to make the words. The reverse phenomenon never happens, in my opinion.

It is just a mistake of John, or those who wrote for John that they thought otherwise, in my opinion.

Jesus never thought like this, in my opinion.

Jesus could assert himself for his claims and reasons; he needed no Paul/s, in my opinion; I love Jesus for his wisdom. Jesus feared nobody except GodAllahYHWH whose humble servant Jesus was, in my opinion.

Thanks
__________________
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Dreams that changed lives of Joseph, son of Jacob and Jesus s/o Mary

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4773525&postcount=4

Hi
Dreams have been playing a very imprtant role in the spirituality of Judaism and Catholicism.

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew1.htm
Quote
[20] The angel of the Lord: in the Old Testament a common designation of God in communication with a human being. In a dream: see Matthew 2:13, 19, 22. These dreams may be meant to recall the dreams of Joseph, son of Jacob the patriarch (Genesis 37:5-11:19). A closer parallel is the dream of Amram, father of Moses, related by Josephus (Antiquities 2, 9, 3; 212, 215-16).

Unqoute

The Christians hold that these dreams were working of the Angels commanded by GodAllahYHWH to help in need.They support the believers and depict God’s verdict in a situation.

So what saint Claudia saw in a dream was a message from the angels to her and through her for her husband as to what he was to do in the event of Crucifixion; which was naturally to save Jesus and not to kill Jesus. If Pilate could not do it openly; he did it , one could see it through the gospels though hidden behind the apparant words, in my opinion.

I love Jesus
Your comments please
__________________
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Gospel of Jesus found!!!?

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4750633&postcount=16
Thekkumbhaga (Southists): Jewish Christians: Kerala, India

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
Hi

What Gospel did Saint Thomas and his followers follow? Did they use the KJV- the Protestant Bible or the Catholic Bible or JWs Bible or the Mormon Bible and in what language? Just for information; anybody, please, I am interested to know.

Thanks

Originally posted by LDNCatholic:

They followed the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Protestants, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons did not exist at that time.

Simple as

Evidence from books of history why Jesus’ journey to the Punjab and neighboring territories was inevitable

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4754300&postcount=9
All revealed religions are from one source God Allah YHWH and hence truthful in the origin

Originally Posted by ronyodish
Paarsurrey,

Jesus did not physically travel to India.
Rony

Paarsurrey says:

Hi

It was a must for Jesus to travel to India, in my opinion, to spread the Gospel in 10 tribes settled there. He had prophesized destruction of Jerusalem if an attempt to kill him was made, so he could not remain there, he had to migrate:

On the evidence from books of history
which show that the coming of Jesus to
the Punjab and neighbouring territories was inevitable

The question naturally arises, why Jesus after his escape from the Cross, came to this country what induced him to take such a long journey? It becomes necessary to answer this question in some detail. I have already said something about it, nevertheless, I think it would be helpful to set out the entire topic in this book.

Let it be noted, therefore, that it was extremely necessary, by reasons of his office as a divine messenger, for Jesus (on whom be peace) to have journeyed towards the Punjab and its neighbourhood, for the ten tribes of Israel, who in the Gospels have been called the Lost Sheep of Israel, had migrated to this country, a fact which is not denied by an historian. It was necessary, therefore, that Jesus (on whom be peace) should have journeyed to this country and, after finding the Lost Sheep, he should have conveyed to them his divine message.

If he had not done so, his purpose would have remained unfulfilled, for his mission was to preach to the Lost Sheep of Israel; his passing away from the world without seeking these lost sheep and, after finding them, teaching them the way to salvation, would have been like the case of a man who had been charged by his king to go to a wild tribe in order to dig a well and supply them with water, but who goes instead to some other place, spends three or four years there and takes no steps to search for the tribe. Does such a man carry out the command of the king? No, not in the least; the man cares not for that tribe: he merely looks to his own comfort.

If, however, it is asked, how and why it should be supposed that the ten tribes of Israel came to this country, the reply is that there is clear evidence to that effect, about which even a person of a poor intellect can have no doubt; for it is well known that people like the Afghans and the original inhabitants of Kashmir are of Israelite origin.

For example, the people of the hilly tract of Alai which is two or three days’ journey from the district of Hazara, have called themselves Bani Israel from time immemorial; so, also the inhabitants of the Kala Dakah, another hilly tract in this region, take pride in being of Israelite origin. Then there is a tribe in the Hazara district itself which attributes their origin to Israel.

Similarly, the people of the hilly region between Chalas and Kabul call themselves Israelites. About the people of Kashmir, the view expressed by Dr. Bernier on the authority of some English scholars, in the second part of his book Travels in the Moghul Empire,17 is well founded: the view, namely, that the Kashmiri people are the descendants of Israel; their dress, their features and some of their customs conclusively point to the fact that they are of Israelite origin.

An Englishman, George Forster by name, states in his book18 that during his stay in Kashmir he thought himself to be amidst a tribe of the Jews. In the book called The Races of Afghanistan,19 by H. W. Bellews C.S.I., (Thacker Spink & Co., Calcutta) it is mentioned that the Afghans came from Syria. Nebuchadnezzar took them prisoner and settled them in Persia and Media, from whence at some later time they marched to the East and settled in the Ghaur hills, where they were known as Beni Israel.

In proof of this there is the prophecy of the Prophet Idris (Enoch), saying that the ten tribes of Israel who were taken prisoner escaped from bondage and took refuge in the territory called Arsartat which appears to be the name of the part known as Hazara today, part of the region being called Ghaur.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books…india/ch4.html

I love Jesus who travelled so much to spread the Gospel to comlete the mission assigned to him by GodAllahYHWH into so far off lands

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Allah’s witnessing alone is sufficient; needs no further witnessing

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4753551&postcount=5

Hi

I remain focused on the issues and not the persons. I have nothing in my heart except love for my fellow human beings; so I don’t take offence for what others write. I am interested to understand things which others believe whether they are JWs, Mormons, Protestants, and Atheists or for that matter if they are Catholics. My interest is primarily in improvement of my own self; with others to the extent that we are all linked in a human bond and cannot live in isolation.

Even earlier I had stated that there are situations in human life where there are no and there cannot be any other witnesses except the All-Seeing GodAllahYHWH, so naturally then God Allah YHWH is a lone Witness, and no other witnessing is required. This is a logical thing and repeatedly mentioned in Quran.

One such situation is when God Allah YHWH selects somebody for His conversation or Word of Revelation.

Like when God Allah talked to Jonah and gave him the Message to convey to the people. So there was no other Witness; but Jonah obeyed even if others didn’t listen to him and ridiculed.

Such is the case of Mary, one of the Virgins in my opinion, whom God selected and I quote here from Quran:

[19:17] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east,
[19:18] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man.
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’
[19:21] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’
[19:22] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’
[19:23] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2…=19& verse=15

So there are no necessarily other witnesses required when GodAllahYHWH makes a conversation. I am only concerned with this principle; if you agree with it .

I think you agree. Don’t you?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Was Joseph Smith Junior a Messenger/Prophet of Jesus and not of God Allah YHWH?

Hi

In my opinion Joseph Smith Junior had written that he had received talbets from Jesus and not from God Allah YHWH; that would make him a Messenger of Jesus only and not from God Allah YHWH.

It would be like Paul’s claim that he was Messenger/Prophet of Jesus and not of God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus so I would defend Jesus against wrong concepts of Paul.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim